TR Replies
author=WMC link=topic=20987.msg90275#msg90275 date=1307636573]
Perhaps skiers with concerns could please step up and speak up about their concerns and assert their legitimate use of the Forest- quiet, winter non-motorized recreation. On the Mt. Baker District contact the Winter Rec Manager Otis Allen 360 854-2610, emailThis email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
And just to make sure you don't look selfish or elitist, be sure to include the already es...
I'm not sure, but it's my impression that the Fuhrer brothers were not Führer brothers.
For example:
Beckey,
For example:
Beckey,
The creek crossing shot is quintessential northwest! Sounds like a fun day.
author=Lowell_Skoog link=topic=20987.msg90265#msg90265 date=1307629814]
And later:
... I object to snowmobiles not because of my ideology but because of my senses. When I go to the mountains, there are certain things that I value, and these things are revealed to me through my senses. The problems I have with snowmobiles are revealed the same way.
I value silence when I go to the mountains. Snowmobiles disrupt the silence with their h...
author=Lowell_Skoog link=topic=20987.msg90271#msg90271 date=1307633886]
I don't think minor boundary shifts will improve the situation much. They might reduce the basis for formal complaints to the Forest Service, but they wouldn't solve the basic problem as I see it.
Shifting the boundary will only cause sledders to move their incursion further into the closure. Most don't care where the boundary line is. Observe any c...
author=sizzling carbides link=topic=20987.msg90266#msg90266 date=1307630797]
You should have left this sentence out. It detracts from the personal points made earlier and makes you sound pompous.
Point well taken. I found Scotsman's posts offensive. I shouldn't have responded in kind.
Any input on my comments about the boundary shift? Before it gets buried.
ah ha! so you're the cowboy... saw iron's TR. Good to make that connection, not sure how trees and cowboys mix, but damn that looks like a fun run down!
author=Marcus link=topic=21073.msg90257#msg90257 date=1307596556]
Right-click on the image you want and "copy image location", then paste it into the IMG tags.
hey Marcus, I've seen quite a few threads turn into image posting tutorials... why not make a sticky post covering it? Would save you time, and (barring the imlpementation of a more user friendly interface) would make it easier for everyone to pos...
author=Lowell_Skoog link=topic=20987.msg90265#msg90265 date=1307629814]
Maybe you need to get off the machine and let your senses clear in order to understand.
You should have left this sentence out. It detracts from the personal points made earlier and makes you sound pompous.
Any input on my comments about the boundary shift? Before it gets buried.
author=Scotsman link=topic=20987.msg90048#msg90048 date=1307403795]
The vast majority of BC skiers in the PNW are liberal leaning urbanites( NTTAWWT) who consider the mountains and especially the alpine regions as spirituous places and are usually proponents of non-motorized mountain travel ( against snowmobiles, dirt bikes etc) Many consider recreational snowmobiling " blue collar" and" redneck".
And l...
author=cumulus link=topic=21031.msg90199#msg90199 date=1307558299]
Cool to see this. Haven't seen Rob since back, so it's nice to get some more detail. Thanks for the report Trevor.
I'm assuming all went well with last years food cache...
The food cache held up very well...some beaks and claws seemed to have a go at them but no luck for them and good luck for us.
In the long run, effective policy will encourage separation of motorized and non-motorized users. Sharing terrain is never going to work well. Snowmobiling and skiing are not compatible, much like jet-skiing and swimming are not compatible. It may not seem like a problem to the motorized user, but it will always be a problem to the non-motorized user. The power mismatch is too great. Still, I don't expect administrative changes in the near term, and I don't have time and energy to...
Looks like fun Kenji, everyone likes shwacking. I've always done the trail too, thanks for the beta. Hopefully we'll have better Cascade River access next winter!
It was a really fun climb. I'm not sure about putting wax on your skis though, it might add too much weight ;)
author=JibberD link=topic=21072.msg90162#msg90162 date=1307506876]
the kind of stuff that helps me justify to my wife why I love the sport and frequent this site so often.
It speaks well of you that your wife values having you around. More often than not I have to justify to my wife why I'm not spending at least one of the weekend days doing something outdoors. Being insufferable has its advantages.
Right-click on the image you want and "copy image location", then paste it into the IMG tags.
For the life of me I cannot figure out how to post picts, but here is a link to some picts of the Steezy one on the FF. Photos are done with my android so the quality is not so hot. I think Franklin will have some sweet ones if he posts a link. Great day on the Finger.
Zack
https://picasaweb.google.com/108365037500696236927/FuhrerFingerMtRainier#
Zack
https://picasaweb.google.com/108365037500696236927/FuhrerFingerMtRainier#
Scotsman, if you want to take on the issue of skinning at ski areas that is your prerogative. That tangental subject is not my concern and is not in any way tied to the issue regarding the separation of skiers and snowmachiners in road accessible locations.
If people object to sharing the landscape with other users that negatively impact their use of the resource, it is their right to state their position and try to use the public process to shape policy.
Fairness is...
If people object to sharing the landscape with other users that negatively impact their use of the resource, it is their right to state their position and try to use the public process to shape policy.
Fairness is...
Makes sense and as you say it would stop all the hysteria from BC skiers regarding crossing arbitrary wilderness boundary lines that were drawn without any regards to the natural terrain and logical turnaround or tour end points.
Being 200 ft or 25' from the hut makes no difference in reality, only in ideology.
And the Baker redraw looks absolutely logical.
I like it.
Of course... never happen and I'm sure the response will be " You'll have to pry 500ft of...
Being 200 ft or 25' from the hut makes no difference in reality, only in ideology.
And the Baker redraw looks absolutely logical.
I like it.
Of course... never happen and I'm sure the response will be " You'll have to pry 500ft of...
Like I said, a "shift". The apex of the wedge would take away the Sherman summit area, directly below it, and a taper of the Squak Glacier, while putting the top at a logical, safe spot for riding. The lower parts of the wedge would start at the same spots. So, giving up 500' on the East to have it 500' West at the apex. This would take care of the majority of violations. People only ride to that high point because it is the safest way up and fear for the crevasses. http://ww...
cumulus, where are the photos of you?? From what I could tell, you were the steeziest one on the mountain.
Hannah
Hannah
author=sizzling carbides link=topic=20987.msg90247#msg90247 date=1307580204]
"he said 300m" Yup, but the lookout is only 150-200' in the boundary, so how is it 900'+? It's estimation and hearsay. "Outlaws"=LOL. Sad, sad, quibbling. IMO, the boundary should be shifted to include the Lookout. Also, the apex of the baker NRA "wedge" should be shifted to include the saddle between Sherman Peak and Pooch Peak, rather t...
author=T. Eastman link=topic=20987.msg90216#msg90216 date=1307567833]
Scotsman, the issue is how one activity reduces the value of the experience of other activities.
T.E. I understand your point but sometimes we have to share even if it may not be ideal in certain areas of the mountains.
Lets take your point and turn it around ( admittedly not as serious an issue and somewhat flippant, however).
Skinners and BC skiers in r...
"he said 300m" Yup, but the lookout is only 150-200' in the boundary, so how is it 900'+? It's estimation and hearsay. "Outlaws"=LOL. Sad, sad, quibbling. IMO, the boundary should be shifted to include the Lookout. Also, the apex of the baker NRA "wedge" should be shifted to include the saddle between Sherman Peak and Pooch Peak, rather than at an apex at the summit of Sherman.
author=sizzling carbides link=topic=20987.msg90236#msg90236 date=1307577914]
Parking "just below the lookout" is where you would expect a boundary abiding snowmobiler to park, since the boundary is less that 200' from the porch of the lookout. Maybe the hiker didn't quite know where the boundary was. Doesn't sound like a violation to me, but maybe the WMC should contact the hiker and let him/her know to take pics with more substantial...
author=WMC link=topic=20987.msg90238#msg90238 date=1307578524]
Yes, snowmobile enthusiasts are mostly regular folks, the folks I meet face to face are good folks. I have ridden snowmobiles since 1980 and owned my own since '89. Some of the posters arguing points are, well, hmmm.
The guy was talking about the quality of his experience while snowmobiles were around and contrasting it to when snowmobiles were not around. http://www.nwhikers.net/...
author=Scotsman link=topic=20987.msg90235#msg90235 date=1307577592]
quote}
Nice folks though; I enjoyed chatting with most of them. I learned a lot about their machines (2 stroke, 4 stroke, turbo, 5000-$20,000 machines) and why it is such a special area to ride} end quote.
And
Quote}So Park Butte was it for me, right in the middle sno-mo country. I resolved to be at peace with the bargain; for a sunny weekend on a sum...
author=WMC link=topic=20987.msg90234#msg90234 date=1307577057]
to park just below the LO.
Parking "just below the lookout" is where you would expect a boundary abiding snowmobiler to park, since the boundary is less that 200' from the porch of the lookout. Maybe the hiker didn't quite know where the boundary was. Doesn't sound like a violation to me, but maybe the WMC should contact the hiker and let him/her...
author=WMC link=topic=20987.msg90234#msg90234 date=1307577057]
"Park Butte LO & Rage Against the Machine(s), June 3-5, 2011"
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7991439
"All hell broke loose by 10:30 as machines crossed the Wilderness boundary 300m away to park just below the LO. One would have parked right up to the railing had I not been sitting on the snow reading (almost runn’d me over). This went on...
"Park Butte LO & Rage Against the Machine(s), June 3-5, 2011"
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7991439
"All hell broke loose by 10:30 as machines crossed the Wilderness boundary 300m away to park just below the LO. One would have parked right up to the railing had I not been sitting on the snow reading (almost runn’d me over). This went on till 5p, nonstop, posse after posse riding up, smokes & beers… "
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7991439
"All hell broke loose by 10:30 as machines crossed the Wilderness boundary 300m away to park just below the LO. One would have parked right up to the railing had I not been sitting on the snow reading (almost runn’d me over). This went on till 5p, nonstop, posse after posse riding up, smokes & beers… "
author=T. Eastman link=topic=20987.msg90216#msg90216 date=1307567833]
Scotsman, the issue is how one activity reduces the value of the experience of other activities. Noise, tracks that reduce ski safety and diminish the resource, and impacts on wildlife, are examples of why some skiers may not want to share terrain. With many more non-motorized winter users than motorized ones, the onus for the snowmobile community to address bad behavior within its ranks w...
I've always used both leashes and brakes on all of my ski-mountaineering AT skis since I first started. My two powder-skiing AT skis (Megawatts and Stokes) are brakes only, no leashes, for avy concerns.
The leashes prevent losing the ski in situations where you just can't afford to have it take off on its own (remote places, steeps, glaciers, etc). Brakes make it much easier to put the skis on in sketchy situations (steep, exposed, icy, narrow, etc.) at the start of a descen...
The leashes prevent losing the ski in situations where you just can't afford to have it take off on its own (remote places, steeps, glaciers, etc). Brakes make it much easier to put the skis on in sketchy situations (steep, exposed, icy, narrow, etc.) at the start of a descen...
Just curious from the pics- why leashes AND brakes?
Great fix. Voile straps, once again, prove their utility.
I often carry some kind of epoxy on long trips/hut trips, etc, but I think the utility in the field, if you don't have a clean, dry place and some curing time, can be pretty minimal. Mechanical solutions like this one seem to be the most likely to work out. I've got a bunch of voile straps, some bailing wire and a some stout wire ties as the bulk of my repair kit and it's gotten the job done sev...
I often carry some kind of epoxy on long trips/hut trips, etc, but I think the utility in the field, if you don't have a clean, dry place and some curing time, can be pretty minimal. Mechanical solutions like this one seem to be the most likely to work out. I've got a bunch of voile straps, some bailing wire and a some stout wire ties as the bulk of my repair kit and it's gotten the job done sev...
author=Marcus link=topic=21086.msg90215#msg90215 date=1307567516]
Great TR Amar and I love, love, love the MacGyver binding fix -- excellent work to all involved. I'd love to see closer pics or hear more details about its construction.
Greg Blaisdell (orthopedic surgeon, and apparently ski surgeon too) was responsible for most of the repair work at 14100 ft, with Ryan and me helping a bit. The toepiece was remounted in the s...
author=Scotsman link=topic=20987.msg90208#msg90208 date=1307561614]
I don't agree.
It's a compromise.. although not ideal for you and people with the same ideology regarding snowmobiles.... the Baker wedge provides snowmobilers with a short window to access some spectacular terrain. Given the fact that from the summit of Baker the eyes can see vast areas of the north cascades that are not legally available to snowmobilers.. its seems a fair com...
Great trip report Amar and Ryan!! Glad you guys were able to fix the binding for the descent, what a fiasco it may have otherwise been.
author=ryanl link=topic=21086.msg90187#msg90187 date=1307552236]
Nice summary Amar. But you forgot to mention the best part of the trip. It was Tobae's birthday on saturday! She didn't mention her age, but based upon her fitness, skiing ability, and overall sense of adventure, I'd guess low to mid 30's. Birthday tours are always a good time.
Flattery will get you everywhere Ryan-
A great trip in an amazing place....
Scotsman, the issue is how one activity reduces the value of the experience of other activities. Noise, tracks that reduce ski safety and diminish the resource, and impacts on wildlife, are examples of why some skiers may not want to share terrain. With many more non-motorized winter users than motorized ones, the onus for the snowmobile community to address bad behavior within its ranks will be imperative if they don't want to get excluded from winter recreation in these popula...
Great TR Amar and I love, love, love the MacGyver binding fix -- excellent work to all involved. I'd love to see closer pics or hear more details about its construction.
Ski crampons were essential this time for skinning up above about 10500 ft, as there were many sections of firm snow which would have been extremely sketchy without them (we would have cramponed on foot if we had no ski crampons). The three of us who skinned the upper mountain used three different types of ski crampons, all hinged: Dynafit for me, B & D Gear for Ryan (we both used Dynafit bindings), and Marker Dukes with their matching crampons for Greg.
All six of us brought ski...
All six of us brought ski...
What a great trip even with equipment issues. BTW, when you were skiining up high, did you use ski crampons (I know, what other kinds are there..)? Hinged or fixed?
Very nice work.
Thanks for the report and thanks to the crew for nailing it.
Thanks for the report and thanks to the crew for nailing it.
Nice idea, Amar! Glad you guys all pulled off a great trip.
author=Lowell_Skoog link=topic=20987.msg90098#msg90098 date=1307463160]
I agree.
You mentioned 200+ people lined up on the Muir Snowfield last weekend, all of them climbing under their own power. No machines. As we all know, this is routine. Just another sunny day on Mt Rainier.
Imagine all those people riding snowmobiles. Heck, imagine just ten percent of those people riding snowmobiles. It would have been a mess. When you see the...
cool trip guys! that picture of Amar's boot looks like it belongs in an advertisement for Voile
author=OldHouseMan link=topic=21054.msg90136#msg90136 date=1307488351]
From the look of the pics, there will easily another month+ of solid skiing at Barrett Spur. IMO, it is one of the better trips on Mt Hood and the views are spectacular.
We were going to go in on Friday, but opted out due to the warming temps.
Nice - maybe the first weekend of July would be a possibility!
Cool to see this. Haven't seen Rob since back, so it's nice to get some more detail. Thanks for the report Trevor.
I'm assuming all went well with last years food cache...
I'm assuming all went well with last years food cache...
author=FairiesWearBoots link=topic=20972.msg89764#msg89764 date=1306995454">
great shot of the bird shaped creep line over by the spires,.. not sure what they call that slide path..?
good eye - not sure what they call that slide path either.
When we skinned past the "bird" (a big flat rock surface beneath the snow causing separation), two woman were skiing down past it on either side, mother and daughter I believe. Mom...
first ascent party, July 2 1920, included the brothers Hans & Heine Fuhrer (and Joseph Hazard & Thomas Hermans) thus the name of the route.