TR Replies
This is great information--thanks again Charlie for snow site information (which was what the thread originally was--).
I was just saying to Pete yesterday that it had been a while since I'd seen a post from you, and here you are - awesome. Great pictures. That icy shot down valley gorgeous.
Northwest Avalanche Center
Paradise, Mt Rainier National Park, Washington
Wind instruments may rime, message 11-25-13
MM/DD Hour Temp RH Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24 Hr Total Solar
PST F % Avg Max Dir Prec Prec Snow Snow W/m2
5400' 5400' 5380' 5380' 5380' 5400' 5400' 5400' 5400' 5400'
----------------------------------------------------------------------...
Paradise, Mt Rainier National Park, Washington
Wind instruments may rime, message 11-25-13
MM/DD Hour Temp RH Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24 Hr Total Solar
PST F % Avg Max Dir Prec Prec Snow Snow W/m2
5400' 5400' 5380' 5380' 5380' 5400' 5400' 5400' 5400' 5400'
----------------------------------------------------------------------...
For comparison, the next post shows the Paradise data for the same 10 day period. The last major precip was on Nov 18-19 with about 1.5" precip, mostly rain but including about 4" of heavy wet snow. Tuesday Nov 19 remained cloudy all day, with light snow flurries late that night, but the clouds vanished at dawn on the 20th and every day since has been mostly or completely sunny through the 28th. Then Nov 29 dawned sunny and nice, but quickly socked in again as the high pressure ended a...
How do you get corn in November? The answers are in the Muir telemetry data below for the last 10 days, a very unusual set of data for late November. This is climatologically the wettest period of the entire year in western WA and the WA Cascades, with the highest probability of precip on any given day and also maximum average precip per day. Getting 9 straight days of sunshine was certainly a very rare occurrence.
Snippets of each morning's NWS Rainier forecast have been added a...
Snippets of each morning's NWS Rainier forecast have been added a...
author=rlsg link=topic=29789.msg124994#msg124994 date=1385760967]
And as I "recall".... rime is what happens to a crystal under certain conditions before it lands on something...? When I see rimed crystals falling and wind transport taking place, I think that I should be considering windslab formation to possibly be more dangerous do to that riming of the crystal...Am I on the right track there? Seems like graupel and/or needles does seem to be mo...
And as I "recall".... rime is what happens to a crystal under certain conditions before it lands on something...? When I see rimed crystals falling and wind transport taking place, I think that I should be considering windslab formation to possibly be more dangerous do to that riming of the crystal...Am I on the right track there? Seems like graupel and/or needles does seem to be more present when wind slabs seem to be more disconcerting...
Rime is formed on ridge tops when clouds(fog) move over them and water collects on surfaces and freezes.
author=aaron_wright link=topic=29789.msg124981#msg124981 date=1385751417]
Surface hoar forms with clear skies, so not frozen fog. Radiational cooling of the snow on clear nights combined with warmer moist air causes surface hoar formation.
Frozen fog is rime.
You are right, although the same conditions conducive for fog formation are conducive for hoar formation: clear skies, lack of wind, high humidity. The places tha...
Clear nights usually mean colder temps, when I said warmer moist air I meant relative the snow surface.
Yes clear and cold nights are conducive to faceting, but it doesn't have to be that cold. Where I ski most of the time, east of Blewett, it is often clear and cold but not bitterly so and the early season snowpack that is shallow can consist almost entirely of facets after extended spells of fair weather.
Yes clear and cold nights are conducive to faceting, but it doesn't have to be that cold. Where I ski most of the time, east of Blewett, it is often clear and cold but not bitterly so and the early season snowpack that is shallow can consist almost entirely of facets after extended spells of fair weather.
I always that surface hoar formed on the surface when there were cold clear nights rather than warm ones. Correct me if you think I'm in error please. Here to listen and learn...
Another thing: my thinking about how I've thought of how surface hoar forms now seems to me to suggest those conditions of cold clear nights would be more conducive to faceting ( potential for big temperature gradient?). More information please...
Still, othe...
Another thing: my thinking about how I've thought of how surface hoar forms now seems to me to suggest those conditions of cold clear nights would be more conducive to faceting ( potential for big temperature gradient?). More information please...
Still, othe...
Excellent input here, thanks!
Depth hoar= facets that have grown large overtime do to temper gradient metamorphism over a long time verses short time so large spaces between crystals making collapsing from a load more likely relatively speaking?
Depth hoar= facets that have grown large overtime do to temper gradient metamorphism over a long time verses short time so large spaces between crystals making collapsing from a load more likely relatively speaking?
Surface hoar forms with clear skies, so not frozen fog. Radiational cooling of the snow on clear nights combined with warmer moist air causes surface hoar formation.
Frozen fog is rime.
What the op found is likely near surface faceting, overlain in areas with surface hoar.
Frozen fog is rime.
What the op found is likely near surface faceting, overlain in areas with surface hoar.
Surface hoar=frozen fog, facets=recrystallized snow.
Thanks so much--I'm from an early '80's "snow science" back ground (nope, not even close to being a scientist..) where we used TG and two other metamorphisms ( "constructive" and "destructive" are terms I rarely here anymore..) as part of the lexicon. Looks like I'd better get current with the times...
Once again thanks for the clarification.
Once again thanks for the clarification.
It's my understanding that faceting takes place anywhere there's a temperature / humidity gradient across snow. I don't believe that the faceting process is limited only to crystals within the snowpack. If I'm in error, I'd love to learn more.
Observationally, this top half inch of snow ran like sugar through my fingers, was composed of angular/faceted crystal types of fairly uniform grain size, and did not have any of the plates I generally associate with sur...
Observationally, this top half inch of snow ran like sugar through my fingers, was composed of angular/faceted crystal types of fairly uniform grain size, and did not have any of the plates I generally associate with sur...
Facets or surface hoar? Have not studied/reviewed formerly for years--thought facets could only be IN the snow-pack...surface hoar formed on the surface even when buried...all ears..
appreciate the education.
appreciate the education.
author=Donnelly_M link=topic=29784.msg124954#msg124954 date=1385624877]
glazed ice
I am thankful for firnspiegel in November, a rare treat!
Your TR's have been fun to read. The good and some times the exercise trips. ;)
author=alpine-earth link=topic=29714.msg124944#msg124944 date=1385605096]
Skied some laps this AM, there's "enough" (heavy emphasis on the quotation marks).
Excellent. Thanks for the beta. "Enough" for laps is certainly good.
author=knitvt link=topic=29714.msg124923#msg124923 date=1385578327]
Anyone have eyes on Summit West in the past couple of days? Needing to make quick November turns on Thanksgiving morning before the rain hits Friday, hoping to find "enough" snow up there...
Skied some laps this AM, there's "enough" (heavy emphasis on the quotation marks).
Plus exquis! Now you know how the snowbroers feel on anything besides sick pow! ;D
That was a nice video - I liked the different viewpoint of a day out in the BC. It's not all about the down (almost though!)
Looks like good vibrations up high!
Stevens has plenty if you are close enough
Anyone have eyes on Summit West in the past couple of days? Needing to make quick November turns on Thanksgiving morning before the rain hits Friday, hoping to find "enough" snow up there...
Lovely pictures! Sounds like a nice time.
Thanks for the info. Was on the other side of the coin on sunday and it was t-shirt margarita type stuff.
https://vimeo.com/80238938
https://vimeo.com/80238938
author=discostew link=topic=29641.msg124882#msg124882 date=1385505648]
i was in one of the "offending" parties that was skinning up the north facing runs off of table, but i'd like to give our perspective. ...
I can understand and appreciate that people are unfamiliar with the area and that conditions change throughout the year. I also appreciate the safety of climbing what you ski. That said, this is a...
author=jwplotz link=topic=29641.msg124898#msg124898 date=1385526042]
Best advice is ignore all the self-righteous b.s. people are giving you about your chosen route and savor the good day out.
Fair enough but don't shed any tears if someone sluffs you off a skin track that's climbing up a popular descent.
author=Scotsman link=topic=29641.msg124543#msg124543 date=1384919707]
The end is neigh!!!!!!!!
REPENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have! ;)
Too classic not to quote.
author=discostew link=topic=29641.msg124882#msg124882 date=1385505648]
i'm open to advice on what we should have done better.
Best advice is ignore all the self-righteous b.s. people are giving you about your chosen route and savor the good day out.
thanks... appears like there are two planes... 22' and 28'. While I sometimes get frustrated there are so many planes / satellites in these kind of images... sometimes they help make the shot...
Beautiful Erik! What was the streak at 28 secs - satellite, air plane or shooting star? Great photos. Thank you.
From what we saw around there it wasn't getting cold enough at night to freeze very well. On Saturday on the way in at 10AM we were already fighting lots of heavy gloppy stuff on our skis (didn't think to bring wax....). But on Sunday at 9 or so parts of the skin track on the east side of Table was quite icy... guessing it just didn't freeze very deep so it goes from corn to mush real quick?
Good show. A good example of the axiom "There are only two types of snow: good snow or a bad attitude".
Many a trip to the White Mountains of New Hampshire ended up like your trip - you made the effort to get to the "skiing", might as well go through with it...I can remember being completely gripped from top to bottom on the Hillmans Highway - delightful skiing when good snow - absolutely terrifying with boilerplate!
Many a trip to the White Mountains of New Hampshire ended up like your trip - you made the effort to get to the "skiing", might as well go through with it...I can remember being completely gripped from top to bottom on the Hillmans Highway - delightful skiing when good snow - absolutely terrifying with boilerplate!
i was in one of the "offending" parties that was skinning up the north facing runs off of table, but i'd like to give our perspective. we were a group from vancouver that is moderately familiar with the bagley bowl area but found that the early season conditions made things a lot less familiar. we initially did take the proper route and skinned up the resort cat track to artist point and then dropped into the north facing stuff from the top but we found that the relati...
How was the snow on south facing slopes? Corning up?
Great choice...amazing photos of the waterfall rainbow.
I didn't take many pictures, but Amar did. Is there something you were looking for?
Yeah, we made it to the top of the dome/lower summit.
Yeah, we made it to the top of the dome/lower summit.
RSLG here is some detailed kootenay pass info poached from the acmg mcr reports
"
Just back from trip to Kootenay Pass. Here are a few observations from the day.
The storm from earlier in the week changed things a bit. The coverage is better, though still nowhere at the mid-winter levels. Be careful on wind-swept rides and lower elevations, the rock are still there. As well, at lower elevations there is now a crust on or near the surface. Depending on the el...
"
Just back from trip to Kootenay Pass. Here are a few observations from the day.
The storm from earlier in the week changed things a bit. The coverage is better, though still nowhere at the mid-winter levels. Be careful on wind-swept rides and lower elevations, the rock are still there. As well, at lower elevations there is now a crust on or near the surface. Depending on the el...
Sweet! Did you tag the summit? It was looking pretty gnarly to cross the glacier back in early november.