TR Replies
author=sb link=topic=10137.msg40835#msg40835 date=1211829352]Additionally (not part of the protocol, but suggested):
Carry a long sling to use as a chest harness along with a prusik. Then if you fall in you’ll not end up upside down...
...If there’s just two of you put several figure 8 knots in the rope between you and your partner. Hopefully, these will jam in the crevasse lip and make stopping the fall and setting up an anchor much easier.....
Let me throw out a protocol for glacier travel in the Cascades.
If there is even one crevasse visible every member of the party has at least a 20m piece of rope, a set of prusiks or ascenders (ti-blocs don’t weigh much and are a bit handier than a prusik), a light etrier (Petzl makes an ultra light one) or at least a cord with a foot loop, a light harness (CAMP makes a nice ultra light one), a few slings, carabiners, and a pulley or two. That way, if someone falls in, or...
If there is even one crevasse visible every member of the party has at least a 20m piece of rope, a set of prusiks or ascenders (ti-blocs don’t weigh much and are a bit handier than a prusik), a light etrier (Petzl makes an ultra light one) or at least a cord with a foot loop, a light harness (CAMP makes a nice ultra light one), a few slings, carabiners, and a pulley or two. That way, if someone falls in, or...
Congrats to both the new in-laws and the corn skiers! :).
author=telemack link=topic=10113.msg40694#msg40694 date=1211329149]
Think there will be enough snow left on June 1?
I was up there both May 17 & 18 and it sure was sweet. With the snow as consolidated as it was, the base was amazingly firm for being so hot. Skinning and skiing in shorts rules! Of course the road flooded out Monday May 19, but road was rebuilt by Thursday. Road still technically "closed," but if you&...
I was on the other side of the water, looking back at you from Victoria. My son, Gabe, got married under a beautiful sky. And while I wouldn't have minded being on top of a beautiful ski, it was a wonderful weekend from my side of the strait, too.
Nice trip, David! I was wondering if something in that area was possible this late as a continuous tour.
I was there with two others, starting up at 11 AM, going up to 8500' The other two dropped into the Nisqaully chutes for a run down and skin up to Pan Pt on softening snow with some sluffs and snowballs, but OK. I stayed above for a nice ski down and some lapping back up. Snow was nice smooth with 1 to 3 inch deep tracks until the bottom of Pat Pt then an bit slow and grabby as it baked in the afternoon. It was a beautiful day on the mountain. We felt and looked a bit baked, too, expecting...
The gate has been open for at least several weeks, and possibly all winter.
Crossing the Middle Fork at the Green Creek trailhead (about where you can drive to right now) seemed quite reasonable a few weeks ago. Just carry sandals and a pack towel. I don’t know about the crossing further east, though.
I followed for a while the tracks of a group on snowshoes that did head up from the last left turn, presumably to climb in the Black Buttes, and recrossed their p...
Crossing the Middle Fork at the Green Creek trailhead (about where you can drive to right now) seemed quite reasonable a few weeks ago. Just carry sandals and a pack towel. I don’t know about the crossing further east, though.
I followed for a while the tracks of a group on snowshoes that did head up from the last left turn, presumably to climb in the Black Buttes, and recrossed their p...
I saw rainier from the summit of old snowy. It looked good, but quickly clouded over later in the day. It was interesting to see clouds coming from the west and the east at the same time. Too bad the westerly ones held rain!
Nice pics, as all ways Jim! It sure is nice to be strolling... back on the flanks of our little gem ;D
Steve, thanks for the report. I've been interested in trying to access Baker and Black Buttes via Middle Fork Nooksack Road (FR 38) for quite some time. But I was under the impression that the road is gated just before Wallace Creek, at what looks like about 1950 ft on the USGS map, until June 15 (see MBS Road Report and Ridl...
Nice. Definitely one of my favorite ski descents off Pilchuck from years past.
I like that 1st pic. Looks as bluebird as yesterday's weather in the Olympics. The sunset coming back on the ferry over a cloudless OlyMtnRange was hard to beat.
I've modified the original TR to include approach info, etc.
Would have been fun to have a little Black Velvet & your humor on the trip ;D
Would have been fun to have a little Black Velvet & your humor on the trip ;D
I'd guess the snow started about 2/3 of the way into the basin, but I don't recall for sure. I'd say we were on bare trail for at least two hours.
author=philfort link=topic=10153.msg40802#msg40802 date=1211746004]
Other than a family a short distance from the trailhead, we only saw one other person all day. A guy walking around in the upper basin with what looked like a large outdoor TV antenna.
Maybe for tracking radio-collared wildlife?
That does look like a nice ski line. But you guys don't mention how long the hike on bare trail was to get to it . . .
<...
According to the Olympic guide, this peak is called Sundial. The summit was short scramble to the south from the ridge-top, but I didn't feel like doing class 3 in my ski boots.
Martin Pk looked like it had a nice line off the summit, but the bottom was melted out. A direct line right off the top of Deception looked like it might just barely go with some traversing, but would have been a bad idea given the sluffing snow.
Pic of Dave navigating the rocks just bel...
Martin Pk looked like it had a nice line off the summit, but the bottom was melted out. A direct line right off the top of Deception looked like it might just barely go with some traversing, but would have been a bad idea given the sluffing snow.
Pic of Dave navigating the rocks just bel...
Way to make me jealous.
Another photo:
Another photo:
Excellent report and glad to hear things went well!
" But when people who haven't been on the snow for months start hypothesizing that the snow FOR SURE is going to kill you, was something I'm a little put off about. Certainly the warnings should be out there letting people know to pay special attention, but lets keep it real."
A bit of a silly topic. Avalanche forecasts in the HIGH range mean that there should be both natural avalanches and if people expose themselves, human triggered as well - and there were...
A bit of a silly topic. Avalanche forecasts in the HIGH range mean that there should be both natural avalanches and if people expose themselves, human triggered as well - and there were...
Very nice, nothing better than skiing with your son or daughter. Wait till they start getting better than you. ;)
now zap, do you really expect a 9 yo to break trail for you? ;D
It's great to see another trail breaker join the community. ;D
There must be something in those Norwegian genes Oyvind, he looks great! Nice moves. Glad to see those old G3's could be so well used. I think you have a new ski partner there. :) Maybe he and Tom should compare gear sometime http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboarding/trip_reports/index.php?topic=9867.0
Paul
Paul
WOW. Looks amazing. Now I have to pull out the map to see your traverse route.
I've only been up there in the summer, but drooled over all the ski lines.
Royal Basin
I've only been up there in the summer, but drooled over all the ski lines.
Royal Basin
author=p0875 link=topic=10126.msg40641#msg40641 date=1211221111]
Certainly the warnings should be out there letting people know to pay special attention, but lets keep it real.
After the slides I've seen this season alone, and the pics posted (thanks Lowell) I think that kept it real enough and in perspective.
author=Monika link=topic=10138.msg40768#msg40768 date=1211513189]
hard to imagine all the sunshine last weekend with this weekend's forecast !
Thanks for super fun time even though we did little of the possible itineraries given the sluff and cravasse danger. :D 8)
fyi ~ that White River road melted out enough while we were out that if you had a chain saw, could now drive within 1.5 miles of the TH instead of the 3+. Certainly...
author=natefred link=topic=10126.msg40761#msg40761 date=1211498593">
I didn't think the original poster's comments were meant to disparage the NWAC or their forecast, just their couch potato buddies who told them they were crazy to ski. Glad someone got out.
"the avalanche warnings were a little overblown"
"when people who haven't been on the snow for months start hypothesizing that...
Again, Well done hipystix! You and Mary ought to be proud - a grand accomplishment!
I have to say the Olympics are probably my favorite range in Washington. Since the late 70s I've spent a lot of time with friends and family exploring as many nooks and crannies as possible. It's great to have such an intact national park so close to Olympia. At times it's hard to find the time to reach the interior but I guess that's part of the magic. Thanks for all the great replies, I'm glad I posted this trip.
Very nice. I grew up hiking in the Oly's, and want to get back there to ski someday. Two years ago we hiked into and camped in Royal Basin at the base of Deception. What a beautiful area. Thanks for the great pictures of a hidden wonderland.
hard to imagine all the sunshine last weekend with this weekend's forecast !
Thanks for super fun time even though we did little of the possible itineraries given the sluff and cravasse danger. :D 8)
fyi ~ that White River road melted out enough while we were out that if you had a chain saw, could now drive within 1.5 miles of the TH instead of the 3+. Certainly more snow in there than the Icicle creek area. Definitely would like...
I actually went into a crevasse on the Kennedy Glacier on April 1st of 1992. I was skiing with Lowell's brother Carl and had the rope in my pack. This was around 8500'. There was six inches of new snow which hid the crevasse and then a 2' bridge of recent dry snows, broken by the crevasse. The remnant bridge, which was about 4' wide (open) saved my life as I held on with my elbows. At the time I didn't think the crevasse was that deep, but as i climbed out on Carl's...
I didn't think the original poster's comments were meant to disparage the NWAC or their forecast, just their couch potato buddies who told them they were crazy to ski. Glad someone got out.
Yup. Seeing shots of extremely well patrolled, well compacted huge faces ripping to the December crust.... NWAC knows what they are talking about, IMHO.
author=Joedabaker link=topic=10126.msg40677#msg40677 date=1211296373">
Personally, I felt that the warnings were merited, I have seen a lot of large slides in the spring on big meltdowns. Not just the wet sluffs that turn big, but 1/4 mile slab fractures, with at least a 3 foot hangfire just below ridge lines. Areas that I would have skied and considered relatively harmless ski bowls.
If I may go so far as to quote myself-
Cross th...
Nice. Thanks for the beta on the Graywolf area. We are planning a trip to Baldy this weekend. That was an inspirational route which would take much longer when the snow melts.
Regarding weather conditions overnight and at the time of the incident, here is the previous day's forecast:
MOUNT RAINIER RECREATIONAL FORECAST
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SEATTLE WA
330 AM PDT SAT MAY 3 2008
SYNOPSIS...A WEAK TROUGH WILL BRING A CHANCE OF SHOWERS TO WESTERN WASHINGTON TODAY.
WEAK HIGH PRESSURE WILL BUILD INTO THE AREA SUNDAY.
A COUPLE OF VERY WEAK SYSTEMS WILL BRUSH BY THE AREA EARLY IN THE WEEK.
AN UPPER LEVEL TROUGH WIL...
MOUNT RAINIER RECREATIONAL FORECAST
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SEATTLE WA
330 AM PDT SAT MAY 3 2008
SYNOPSIS...A WEAK TROUGH WILL BRING A CHANCE OF SHOWERS TO WESTERN WASHINGTON TODAY.
WEAK HIGH PRESSURE WILL BUILD INTO THE AREA SUNDAY.
A COUPLE OF VERY WEAK SYSTEMS WILL BRUSH BY THE AREA EARLY IN THE WEEK.
AN UPPER LEVEL TROUGH WIL...
the guy in black bandana kind of looks like Chuck Norris...lol
Dumb is hard to define. Perhaps the dumbest thing to do is to inadequately consider your choices and the likely consequences. Prophylaxis should always be subject to a 'cost vs. benefit analysis.'
Roping up on a typical glacier:
costs: rope (and accessories) is heavy; takes up space; physically connects climbers (limits mobility/efficiency); can force alterations to the 'natural' path climber(s) would otherwise take; can aggravate falling situations wi...
Roping up on a typical glacier:
costs: rope (and accessories) is heavy; takes up space; physically connects climbers (limits mobility/efficiency); can force alterations to the 'natural' path climber(s) would otherwise take; can aggravate falling situations wi...
A few notes regarding the incident. At 8 in the morning, not following any warm days, the snow was hardly deep and soft as some recent TRs have described. Freezing levels were probably hovering near Paradise the day before, and the clear night at 10k probably put temps in the low 20s at warmest, but these are just guesses. I will not say that there were zero signs that there was something under the snow at this location, my friends remarked later that they didn't like the looks of the spot...
I wouldn't say how you traveled back then is particularly dumb, Lowell. Having been out during the days these crevasse falls happened, I can say that conditions were not spring like, or even winter like (as you know). The conditions were soft, deep and wet snow that had no stable base (I remember seeing Amar and team out on the white salmon, and thinking, "Why the hell is someone out there so late?!" Nothing against them, I break my own rules often, too). To top it off, newer snow...
The following post (almost 20 years old) is interesting in light of this year's crevasse incidents and sb's observations in this thread. I posted it back in the Usenet days before there was a World Wide Web. (Yeah, I'm an information pack-rat.) The original writer (Ken Roberts) posted a quote from "The Best Ski Touring in America" and asked for comments:
From:This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. (Lowell Skoog)
Newsgroups: rec.skiing,r...
As others are, I too am guilty of traveling solo on glaciers and most often do not wear a helmet. Your experience has made me re-evaluate such decisions. Thank you for sharing.
author=David_Coleman link=topic=10137.msg40716#msg40716 date=1211384023]David, you crack me up. ;D
Amar hopes you don't mind posting any pictures prior to your approval, so he's going to do it anyway. 8)
Thanks for sharing your story, Ken.
Like sb, I hadn't heard of many crevasse incidents in the Northwest involving skiers before this year. We've had a rash of them this spring.
I've roped up occasionally when ascending or traversing glaciers on skis, but to be honest I haven't done it very much recently. (And I've nearly always removed the rope when skiing down.) These incidents provide valuable negative feedback. I hope I'll think twice about...
Like sb, I hadn't heard of many crevasse incidents in the Northwest involving skiers before this year. We've had a rash of them this spring.
I've roped up occasionally when ascending or traversing glaciers on skis, but to be honest I haven't done it very much recently. (And I've nearly always removed the rope when skiing down.) These incidents provide valuable negative feedback. I hope I'll think twice about...
In skiing the Cascades backcountry since '70-'71 I have never had or even heard of a glacier skiing crevasse accident in the Cascades. This year there are the White salmon and Nisqually incidents, the Silver Star incident, the Coast Range (Spearhead) incident, and the recent disappearance on the Coleman Gl. which may well be a crevasse accident. Todd E's theory about the colder than usual snow this spring might be a big factor. In any case, what should we do?&nbs...
Glad you are able to enjoy some sunshine and much skiing. Thanks for sharing all your adventures down south, as always a great read. Vacation... ;D ;D ;D you might not want to answer that question or they will really be jealous. Your book will be a significant resource for ski mountaineering, keep it up Amar!
