TR Replies
Amar - while you beat yourself up for the mistakes, don't loose sight of the good decisions and experienced judgments that led to surviving. Thanks for sharing in such detail, so we can all add to our bag of survival tricks. You never know when passing on your information/experience could end up saving someone else. - Russ
Amar, as all of the others have said, thanks for sharing your story and I'm glad it all worked out in the end. It's certainly made me think about how I would handle that situation. I hope that I could stay as level headed as you did. Also, It's good to see the TAY crowd go back and forth and have good discussion.
I agree with Sky on both points, it seems like there has been a lot of talk about technological solutions. Further, I don't...
I agree with Sky on both points, it seems like there has been a lot of talk about technological solutions. Further, I don't...
author=skykilo link=topic=10009.msg40357#msg40357 date=1210358811]
GPS doesn't know where crevasses are
But GPS can know where you knew crevasses were when you could see where you were going, within a reasonable level of accuracy (provided that it was on during the ascent). It is a lot easier to follow a GPS track than a ski track in a whiteout. But that may not be what skiing is about. ;D
Amar - wow wow wow. I only finally saw your post late this morning. So glad to hear you and Hannah make it out ok. I can imagine your concern and then relief over your partner. Congrats for keeping your head and getting down ok. You have given us a lot to chew on. I think party separations can happen more easily than many of us realize. It seems there is nothing more grounding than the notion that one might die soon. Thanks for the thorough write up and the comments of all.
Sky - i was just answering Amar's question.
The situation I was thinking where a radio would be very useful was when I was into day 2 of a planned 4 day traverse. We were pinned down by weather. I wanted to tent and stick it out for another couple of days and we had enough food and gas and fuel to do so. But we had no means of alerting the outside world that all was well.
Having the radio and being able to tell someone that we're just fine woul...
The situation I was thinking where a radio would be very useful was when I was into day 2 of a planned 4 day traverse. We were pinned down by weather. I wanted to tent and stick it out for another couple of days and we had enough food and gas and fuel to do so. But we had no means of alerting the outside world that all was well.
Having the radio and being able to tell someone that we're just fine woul...
Perhaps I misused heavy; that's my personal bias creeping into my post because I hate carrying anything I deem unnecessary.
But in all the discussion here, why such a heavy emphasis on technology? Even with the phone contact Amar managed, technology did him no good. The chopper had to abort. Perhaps if he weren't waiting for the rangers, he would've been more focussed to descend quicker that morning? GPS doesn't know where crevasses are; neither do radios. Self-reliance is the only answer in the wild.
Since I am the f...
author=skykilo link=topic=10009.msg40357#msg40357 date=1210358811]
I don't want to point any fingers or say what I would've/Amar should've done, because I hate that kind of speculative crap. He made it down the mountain alive - good job, dude. And bravo to Hannah for using her intimate knowledge of the mountain to her advantage.
I really agree with this. In all the talk of what Amar c...
I don't want to point any fingers or say what I would've/Amar should've done, because I hate that kind of speculative crap. He made it down the mountain alive - good job, dude. And bravo to Hannah for using her intimate knowledge of the mountain to her advantage.
But in all the discussion here, why such a heavy emphasis on technology? Even with the phone contact Amar managed, technology did him no good. The chopper had to abort. Perhaps if...
But in all the discussion here, why such a heavy emphasis on technology? Even with the phone contact Amar managed, technology did him no good. The chopper had to abort. Perhaps if...
Great discussion here, thanks for starting it with such a well thought out TR, Amar (and Hannah).
While I would have turned back long before, the thing that jumped out at me was the choice to continue skinning while Hannah was booting. In good weather, or on a slope where the path for either mode of travel is roughly similar, I can see sticking with what's working for you. In that terrain, with questionable weather, I'd switch to booting to stay near my partner, or ask the...
While I would have turned back long before, the thing that jumped out at me was the choice to continue skinning while Hannah was booting. In good weather, or on a slope where the path for either mode of travel is roughly similar, I can see sticking with what's working for you. In that terrain, with questionable weather, I'd switch to booting to stay near my partner, or ask the...
Much of the intervening comments on this thread concern technology. Technology fails, period. Those radios don’t work sometimes, I have a nice, light set that turn themselves on and burn out batteries until you need them. When I did a solo ski down up and down the Emmons last year, my GPS, which I was hoping would provide another layer of safety by leaving “breadcrumbs” inexplicably turned itself off, rendering it totally worthless. Ultimately it is up to the judgm...
Ash_j, yes, weather was a factor, but only one factor. In some ways, the stage was set for the weather.
Using Amar's experience as fodder for this discussion, weather would have been fatal if Amar were climbing in a Speedo. Why did he have other clothing, because he wanted a margin of safety provided by extra clothing.
Had he perished in a Speedo, due to hypothermia, would we blame the weather?
The same logic can be applied to what went right and what went wrong.
<...
Using Amar's experience as fodder for this discussion, weather would have been fatal if Amar were climbing in a Speedo. Why did he have other clothing, because he wanted a margin of safety provided by extra clothing.
Had he perished in a Speedo, due to hypothermia, would we blame the weather?
The same logic can be applied to what went right and what went wrong.
<...
Thanks for speaking for me, Amar.
That afternoon when I finally reached Point Success, I could see faint tracks that seemed to indicate Amar's changeover from uphill to downhill mode. My assumption was that he skied down his skin track. I did wait for a few minutes to see if the clouds would lift at all, and tried calling his cell phone before deciding to head down myself.
Downclimbing seemed a much better option than skiing what I couldn't see, and the wildly var...
That afternoon when I finally reached Point Success, I could see faint tracks that seemed to indicate Amar's changeover from uphill to downhill mode. My assumption was that he skied down his skin track. I did wait for a few minutes to see if the clouds would lift at all, and tried calling his cell phone before deciding to head down myself.
Downclimbing seemed a much better option than skiing what I couldn't see, and the wildly var...
In reading of your experience, it appears to me that the following rules were broken.
1. You were traveling un-roped on Glacier
2. You were not together as a group.
3. Non-skiers would think that 2:30 PM is way too late be that night on Mt. Rainier, prior to my ski career, I would have agreed. See below for skiers challenges. Speaks to Established practices.
4. Letting “summit fever” have the upper hand.
In my humbl...
Amar- first and foremost, I would like to echo the gratitude and congratulation on your survival and humble recollection of what you experienced on Mt. Rainier.
Since you put it out there and others are commenting/advising. I though I might contribute as well, with hopes that this input is constructive and of value and provides for a means of reflection and discussion, as I think we have and can all benefit from learning of your experience.
Most all accidents/incidents in t...
Since you put it out there and others are commenting/advising. I though I might contribute as well, with hopes that this input is constructive and of value and provides for a means of reflection and discussion, as I think we have and can all benefit from learning of your experience.
Most all accidents/incidents in t...
author=korup link=topic=10009.msg40310#msg40310 date=1210280664">
Wow Amar, quite an epic. Glad you made it through fine. You've had a rather "spicy" few weeks! How many people can say they've spent a night in a steam cave??
I've had multiple trips where two-way radios would have made an enormous difference; probably worth the weight.
The rather "spicy" few weeks, specifically the cre...
I have a pair of Vertex VX 170 radios - they are VHF radios. I use the normal and whip antennae. In most areas in BC I have access or proximity to a radio repeater for contact with partner and also for contact with outside world (eg. logging companies, heliski ops, ski lift areas). I haven't had to use it for SAR purposes yet but I also have channels pre-programmed for SAR in whatever area I usually travel.
- I also have the battery pack for the radio so can use...
- I also have the battery pack for the radio so can use...
Thanks for such an instructive and honest survival story.
There have been several mentions of things that "could have" greatly improved the situation such as radios, GPS, and roping up. But, gear and precautions slow you down 100% of the time to protect against the much smaller percent chance of a given situation. Being slowed down creates its own hazards. Is there a clear lesson here that simply says, 100% of the time, "Okay, I'm throwing in the...
There have been several mentions of things that "could have" greatly improved the situation such as radios, GPS, and roping up. But, gear and precautions slow you down 100% of the time to protect against the much smaller percent chance of a given situation. Being slowed down creates its own hazards. Is there a clear lesson here that simply says, 100% of the time, "Okay, I'm throwing in the...
Amar,
It's all been said but I, too, am very glad you shared such an incredible and humbling ordeal with us. It is a testament to your physical and emotional strength that everything turned out safe. I would also like to hear how Hannah's solo descent out went. That must have been quite challenging in its' own right. Glad you both are out safe!
John
It's all been said but I, too, am very glad you shared such an incredible and humbling ordeal with us. It is a testament to your physical and emotional strength that everything turned out safe. I would also like to hear how Hannah's solo descent out went. That must have been quite challenging in its' own right. Glad you both are out safe!
John
Wow, glad you guys came out unscathed, and thanks for sharing the story! Way to keep your head on straight! I think I was napping in the sun at Washington Pass while you were beginning your epic...
Just heard about your ordeal Amar. I'm glad you (and Hannah) made it thru unharmed. And thanks for being so open about your experience
Sounds like you kept it pretty cool up there. I think that I (I don't want to speak for anyone else) would find it hard to fight the 'Down Now' instinct, even if didn't truly know where I was going.
Hey, would you mind sending me your tracklog, and a waypoint for that steam cave bivy? ;D j/k (Seriously though, I love GPS, no matter how bad people try to make me feel about it.)
Hey, would you mind sending me your tracklog, and a waypoint for that steam cave bivy? ;D j/k (Seriously though, I love GPS, no matter how bad people try to make me feel about it.)
(in Borat voice):
Verrryyyy Niccceeeee!
Chris
Verrryyyy Niccceeeee!
Chris
Amar,
Thank you so much for telling your story. It is good to be reminded how conditions can change and cause survival situations to arise quickly.
I left Paradise with Monika several weeks ago for the same route. At midnight, before dropping down to the Nisqually, I pulled the plug because I was freaked out about the big summit cap that formed up as we were climbing. Having had one epic getting off Sunset Ridge many years ago I easily recalled what...
Thank you so much for telling your story. It is good to be reminded how conditions can change and cause survival situations to arise quickly.
I left Paradise with Monika several weeks ago for the same route. At midnight, before dropping down to the Nisqually, I pulled the plug because I was freaked out about the big summit cap that formed up as we were climbing. Having had one epic getting off Sunset Ridge many years ago I easily recalled what...
Wow Amar, powerful experience. I too thank you for sharing it as it provides many lessons, and provides a good opportunity to discuss with partners. Great job to both of you for keeping it together and getting home.
-Paresh
-Paresh
Very nice photos Mark.Thanks for the slideshow.
So very happy you both made it out ok, but shame on you for leaving us in such suspense regarding the outcome of your partner! It took nearly all day reading through this, bit by bit at work, but great documentation and writing. Been there, nearly done that, so I really felt your fear and pain. Certainly some of our best lessons are learned from these difficult situations.
Lost my dog, Joe, in a moat and learned: "Don't ever come home without the dog!"...
Lost my dog, Joe, in a moat and learned: "Don't ever come home without the dog!"...
Some photos from the summit team are here. The Hogsback has deviated significantly to the west since last year, so we opted to take the old route up the Mazama chute. Just below the bergschrund, we traversed left over reasonably steep snow, then ascended to a steep chute. Above the chute, there was a boot track over easy ground to the summit. The descent back to the Hogsback was time-consuming but not partic...
What an epic...... way to keep it together!!!!!!
Just in the interest of discussion I would agure that staying together doesn't seem that easy to me in the conditions that Amar describes. In those conditions you could actually be "together", or at least as together as you'd be on a clear calm day and still not be able to see or hear each other because of whiteout & wind. At that point even slight divergences can easily lead people apart.
Of course there is nothing wrong with having a plan for what to do in...
Of course there is nothing wrong with having a plan for what to do in...
author=David_Coleman link=topic=10009.msg40317#msg40317 date=1210287064]
I don't think "staying together" is hard to follow if you've got proper group dynamics & a mutual understanding/agreement when faced with more severe circumstances.
Completely agree. Just my opinion, no disrespect to anyone intended: The guy that I tour with the most; we never split - no matter how determined we were or crushed we bec...
I don't think "staying together" is hard to follow if you've got proper group dynamics & a mutual understanding/agreement when faced with more severe circumstances.
Amar-
Thanks for your humility and of course, excellent photos and trip narration.
RE: cell phones on Rainier- in 2005 high on Liberty Ridge- we had ourselves a mini-epic (stormy conditions/running out of food and fuel) and all 3 of our cell phones sucked! carriers were then AT&T/Cingular and Verizon. We could see civilization below us, but couldn't make any calls.
Re: groups staying together, this is the obvious choice and negates need for r...
Thanks for your humility and of course, excellent photos and trip narration.
RE: cell phones on Rainier- in 2005 high on Liberty Ridge- we had ourselves a mini-epic (stormy conditions/running out of food and fuel) and all 3 of our cell phones sucked! carriers were then AT&T/Cingular and Verizon. We could see civilization below us, but couldn't make any calls.
Re: groups staying together, this is the obvious choice and negates need for r...
Thanks for the detailed report, I'm glad it turned out ok!!
author=Amar Andalkar link=topic=10009.msg40307#msg40307 date=1210278443]I've considered buying a set of two-way radios more times than I can count. They're so cheap, I might as well buy a pair and bring them along. The main thing stopping me thus far is that all the nice, compact ones seem to use proprietary battery packs, while I'd much prefer something which uses AA batteri...
Or, the Scottish/British interpretation of awesome, which is awful, or appalling. When I'd tell my grandma about something I had enjoyed, she used to respond by saying that's not awesome!
My two-way talkabout radios have the 'proprietary' batteries...but these can be taken out and replaced with simple AA, which I frequently do.
All my friends with similiar radios can do this too.
I'll add my bit of opinion: Yes, an epic. I'm grateful to get to share your experience. It was 'awesome' in the older sense of the english word: full of awe. Also, good narrative style.
-Jayme
...
All my friends with similiar radios can do this too.
I'll add my bit of opinion: Yes, an epic. I'm grateful to get to share your experience. It was 'awesome' in the older sense of the english word: full of awe. Also, good narrative style.
-Jayme
...
Wow Amar, quite an epic. Glad you made it through fine. You've had a rather "spicy" few weeks! How many people can say they've spent a night in a steam cave??
I've had multiple trips where two-way radios would have made an enormous difference; probably worth the weight.
I've had multiple trips where two-way radios would have made an enormous difference; probably worth the weight.
What a fun and smart group of skiers/climbers. Thanks to Chris for leading our rope team with competence and patience. And special thanks to Ron J and Mad Dog (aka chopped liver) for organizing and including my wife, Sidnie, and I in a great ski trip. The skiing below Crater rock was good in sun softened wind affect but the best skiing was in the "Old Chute" according to those wise enough to take their skis to the summit. After down climbing to the Hogsbac...
Thanks everyone for the kind words and support.
;D ;D ;D ;D
Sprint, a...
author=Pandora link=topic=10009.msg40304#msg40304 date=1210275714">
I'm just pissed that Amar got to ski the Thumb and I didn't! ;)
Hannah
;D ;D ;D ;D
author=gregL link=topic=10009.msg40305#msg40305 date=1210276876">
Who's your cell phone provider?
Sprint, a...
Thanks for a gripping story, and reminder to watch it out there. Climb/ski at this level for many years and an epic of some kind is inevitable. It often starts with what in retrospect is a mistake (pushing hard for the summit past your partner in this case) but how you handle it is what counts in the end and you and your partner obviously managed quite well. Epics are very worthwhile to remind us of the power of the mountains, the fickleness of fate, and how tough and resourceful we can b...
Compelling reading, Amar, thanks. Glad you both made it down. Who's your cell phone provider?
I'm just pissed that Amar got to ski the Thumb and I didn't! ;)
Hannah
Hannah
Amar, first I am happy everyone made it off safe and sound.
Because I have heard so many reports of cell phone utility up high in our mountains, I was surprised that yours worked so intermittently apparently considering what appeared to be a good signal and connectivity. Of greatest value would have been to communicate with your partner once you had split up and then sought to contact her. Probably even more important than the ability to contact mountain rescue. The...
Because I have heard so many reports of cell phone utility up high in our mountains, I was surprised that yours worked so intermittently apparently considering what appeared to be a good signal and connectivity. Of greatest value would have been to communicate with your partner once you had split up and then sought to contact her. Probably even more important than the ability to contact mountain rescue. The...
Hey Dan,
Real sorry to hear about your brother. My condolences to you and your family. Glad you got some turns in. Nice pictures. Sounds like you've been hitting the Pacific Northwest pretty hard. Snow's melting fast on Mt. Shasta. You hit it at a good time. Have a good rest of the ski season. Looks like lots of snow in the Pacific Northwest. I may be heading up to Mt. Adams in late June, early July. Maybe we can hook up. Robin
Real sorry to hear about your brother. My condolences to you and your family. Glad you got some turns in. Nice pictures. Sounds like you've been hitting the Pacific Northwest pretty hard. Snow's melting fast on Mt. Shasta. You hit it at a good time. Have a good rest of the ski season. Looks like lots of snow in the Pacific Northwest. I may be heading up to Mt. Adams in late June, early July. Maybe we can hook up. Robin
Amar, thanks for sharing your story, glad that you and Hanna made it off the mountain fine. Good job keeping yourself focused.
Really glad that you're both all right
Coming from someone as technically savvy as you, BOO.
typical Dynafit accidental pre-release bullshit
Coming from someone as technically savvy as you, BOO.
Wow- that was a harrowing experience to say the least! It reminded me of the John Muir story where he got stuck on the summit of Shasta and spent the night lying next to a fumarole.
Glad you and Hanna are safe. What a read. I learnt a lot reading it and congratulate you on your calm thinking and the good decisions you made once you where in the thick of it.
Mandatory reading for all those thinking of any eary season summit attempt.
You're having an exciting spring so far!
Scotty.
Mandatory reading for all those thinking of any eary season summit attempt.
You're having an exciting spring so far!
Scotty.
As allways. much thanks to you and Ron for organizing this marvellous annual trip and allowing me to bring my family. It's very special to have my son and wife along and mix with all the terrific personalities on this trip.
Much kudos to my rope team of Stewie, Tangerine(Sidnie) and Ovrthills( Michael) who made the summit with me.
Stewie wants to do Rainier next but I'm going to make him read Amar's TR first.
Scotty
Much kudos to my rope team of Stewie, Tangerine(Sidnie) and Ovrthills( Michael) who made the summit with me.
Stewie wants to do Rainier next but I'm going to make him read Amar's TR first.
Scotty