TR Replies
Yes thanks for the input Cookie.
Let's hope that there is no hoar frost layer that gets involved in this lower layer. I assume that the pack is low enough that there are enough shrubs and brush that it would eliminate most of the concern in the case of hoar frost.
What tends to be the trend in a early snowpack with a warmer (early season) ground and cold top surface? More rounding of the snow at the bottom near the ground?
Let's hope that there is no hoar frost layer that gets involved in this lower layer. I assume that the pack is low enough that there are enough shrubs and brush that it would eliminate most of the concern in the case of hoar frost.
What tends to be the trend in a early snowpack with a warmer (early season) ground and cold top surface? More rounding of the snow at the bottom near the ground?
Sure thing Sharks!
Hopefully the snow quality improves with additional consolidation or cold storms.
Hopefully the snow quality improves with additional consolidation or cold storms.
author=Joedabaker link=topic=17741.msg74993#msg74993 date=1288366802]
I'm not sure a drop test would give relevant results for an avalanche and stress on a zip tie.
In the several avalanches I have had the misfortune to experienced in my life. I have to compare and think that the static test that you gave earlier would have the best results of actual involvement. I have been involved in some doozies. I'm not saying that the information from a se...
I'm not sure a drop test would give relevant results for an avalanche and stress on a zip tie.
In the several avalanches I have had the misfortune to experienced in my life. I have to compare and think that the static test that you gave earlier would have the best results of actual involvement. I have been involved in some doozies. I'm not saying that the information from a series of drop tests would not form some relevant means.
Kam would have the best means to this type of...
In the several avalanches I have had the misfortune to experienced in my life. I have to compare and think that the static test that you gave earlier would have the best results of actual involvement. I have been involved in some doozies. I'm not saying that the information from a series of drop tests would not form some relevant means.
Kam would have the best means to this type of...
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74987#msg74987 date=1288333485]
I also think the zip ties can be far stronger than people think and still have confidence in breaking as once the bindings release, the skier and skis will tend to separate in the turbulent flow of the avy because of different size and shape ratios. This will cause considerable forces on the zip ties similar to the shock loading achieved in a yard sale.
What do think about that theory Coo...
Great pictures.
Chuck and I saw your tracks from Cougar Divide (one ridge to the east) where conditions were similar, including driving to the trailhead (4800ft). We chose Cougar Divide this day because the gate closes at Nooksack Falls on November 1. However, our day ended up mostly a tour - bushwhacking and skinning up the divide to its junction with Chowder Ridge, only making 3 short laps in the meadows. It was a beautiful day with Hadley Peak and Baker’s North Ridge route looking...
Chuck and I saw your tracks from Cougar Divide (one ridge to the east) where conditions were similar, including driving to the trailhead (4800ft). We chose Cougar Divide this day because the gate closes at Nooksack Falls on November 1. However, our day ended up mostly a tour - bushwhacking and skinning up the divide to its junction with Chowder Ridge, only making 3 short laps in the meadows. It was a beautiful day with Hadley Peak and Baker’s North Ridge route looking...
OK thats what I wanted to hear and confirms my theory, at least to me.
If a class 2 can suck off a pair of Fritschi's set at DIN 10, then the zip-ties on the leashes can be maximized to resist at least that force without causing concern that they won't break.( if the skis don't come off the zip ties are irrelevant)
I need to understand the forces relating to DIN 10 release to size the zip ties.
I also think the zip ties can be far stronger than people th...
If a class 2 can suck off a pair of Fritschi's set at DIN 10, then the zip-ties on the leashes can be maximized to resist at least that force without causing concern that they won't break.( if the skis don't come off the zip ties are irrelevant)
I need to understand the forces relating to DIN 10 release to size the zip ties.
I also think the zip ties can be far stronger than people th...
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74973#msg74973 date=1288321726]
Paging Cookiemonster! Any info on forces within a class 2 avy?
There isn't really a rule of thumb.
Size 2 involves about 1000 cubic metres of snow, which works out to around 1-5kPa. This is enough to break windows, push in a door, and damage a wood framed structure. These forces are concentrated in the front of the avalanche, and could increase significa...
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74970#msg74970 date=1288320382]
I guess my experience of having problems is just as valid as your experience of care-free dynabraking, no?
Absolutely Scotsman. I also think the ~5 mm riser plates I have may also allow the brakes to retract better and stay in place such that snow build up is not a problem. My routine involves stepping into the heel before removing skins, which tends to serve me w...
Awesome! Can't wait to get down south.
Hello All - weighing in on the side of break away leashes, it seems to me that whatever cable tie connection we settle on, it will need to be a compromise between the sudden loading of that forward launching yardsale vs. the perhaps slower initial loading, hence failure by stretching (yielding?) before snapping which might occur in an avalanche. Any mechanical engineers out there that can weigh in? Having nearly lost an eye and earned at least 30 stitch's in my scalp from rotating l...
author=Randy link=topic=17741.msg74975#msg74975 date=1288325249]
So more of a style issue eh? -- What if the ribbons had a tartan pattern?
Nope, still ain't doing it. Sorry.
Don't care if they were made from woven pubic hair plucked from unicorns! ain't wearing them. nnnoooo way!
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74966#msg74966 date=1288318517]
True but I still can't go there.... I've actually seen people skiing with them trailing behind them.
It's nearly as goofy as those people that have flags on their poles!!!!!! aaaahhh. Makes me shudder.
So more of a style issue eh? -- What if the ribbons had a tartan pattern?
Research on Zip tie strength.
"Our smallest nylon ties (item 17-03) have a 40-pound breaking strength and are not recommended for deer fencing, being better suited to dog fencing and other tasks. The heavier nylon ties (items 17-04 and 17-06) have a breaking strength of 120 pounds, come in both 8-inch and 14-inch lengths, and are suitable for attaching deer fencing to metal posts."
Another link here.
http://www.actfs.com/CatalogProducts.asp?nProductsID=...
"Our smallest nylon ties (item 17-03) have a 40-pound breaking strength and are not recommended for deer fencing, being better suited to dog fencing and other tasks. The heavier nylon ties (items 17-04 and 17-06) have a breaking strength of 120 pounds, come in both 8-inch and 14-inch lengths, and are suitable for attaching deer fencing to metal posts."
Another link here.
http://www.actfs.com/CatalogProducts.asp?nProductsID=...
author=Mofro link=topic=17741.msg74957#msg74957 date=1288310574]
Not if you're going to fall and lose a ski... ;D
The BC bible says" Let he who has not fallen cast the first snowball" ;D
author=Mofro link=topic=17741.msg74957#msg74957 date=1288310574]
I haven't noticed dyna brakes being a nuisance in transition time for me,
See thats just not my experience. I've been complaining about dynabrakes for a long time especially in deep snow. My experience has ALWAYS been that they become problematic in deep snow, get clumped up, ice under the brake ( not to mention the toe-piece) . Not to mention the auto rot...
author=ron j link=topic=17741.msg74937#msg74937 date=1288298120]
Might as well go for the triple ties. As far a I know the ties don't really have standardized or rated breaking strength so who knows what you really need or at what actual load each individual tie will break at.
Looked up the B&D website and it says "Cable ties(supplied) in vinyl tube provide a breaking strength of approximately 50 lbf and 70 lbf&quo...
author=Randy link=topic=17741.msg74959#msg74959 date=1288313061]
Yeah -- I can see that -- I guess it is a question of choosing between farting around stuffing the powder cords back into your gaiters after ripping skins vs. sifting around in the snow after "yard sale"
True but I still can't go there.... I've actually seen people skiing with them trailing behind them.
It's nearly as goofy as those peo...
video link (also added up top)
http://www.vimeo.com/16296262
http://www.vimeo.com/16296262
author=samthaman link=topic=17741.msg74945#msg74945 date=1288306598">
Does anyone know if the 130 mm Dynafit brake can be bent to fit a 138MM ski? I almost lost one of my lotus's (loti?) yesterday, and I'd like for that not to happen.
Sam - I'd tend to support Mofro on the matter.
I would hate to see someone blow 80 frogpelts on my say so alone, but were I in your shoes I would go for it and here's...
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74946#msg74946 date=1288306987]
Seen people use them but they look a pain in the ass at transitions and I just can't bring myself to go there but thanks for the advice.
Yeah -- I can see that -- I guess it is a question of choosing between farting around stuffing the powder cords back into your gaiters after ripping skins vs. sifting around in the snow after "yard sale"
Sweet pictures, especially the last one! How deep was the snow up there, hit any rocks? Can't wait for the weekend.
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74939#msg74939 date=1288300574]
Since I now have an ABS pack it thought it was agreed I always get first tracks from now on???
Not if you're going to fall and lose a ski... ;D
I haven't noticed dyna brakes being a nuisance in transition time for me, but I also haven't asked if I was being a nuiance to anyone else.
Sam, not sure if the tolerances hold tr...
Well played, gentlemen.
A fools hope for sure but might as well head up there tomorrow and see if the warming has left beind any surivors...
A fools hope for sure but might as well head up there tomorrow and see if the warming has left beind any surivors...
you could, you also could hike a mile or so before you hit skin-able snow though.
sooo, you could drive to the trailhead????
author=skier8484 link=topic=17751.msg74948#msg74948 date=1288308016]
Definitely one of the finer October days I've had in the mountains.
Great pictures per norm Sam. Almost makes it worth waiting for you guys to setup your shots ;)
hey, i'm way faster than allen who is "faster than blah blah blah blah...."
speaking of which, a video is on the way, but the slow internet out here is putt...
Red Lotus 138's.....and powder. Beautiful pics.
I need to learn how to take photps like that.
I need to learn how to take photps like that.
Definitely one of the finer October days I've had in the mountains.
Great pictures per norm Sam. Almost makes it worth waiting for you guys to setup your shots ;)
Great pictures per norm Sam. Almost makes it worth waiting for you guys to setup your shots ;)
looks like a bit more snow there than over on skyline, good show!
author=Randy link=topic=17741.msg74944#msg74944 date=1288306283]
In deep snow you want "Powder Cords" not leashes.
Seen people use them but they look a pain in the ass at transitions and I just can't bring myself to go there but thanks for the advice.
author=ron j link=topic=17741.msg74921#msg74921 date=1288288948">
The challenges make you stronger young skywalker:
DYNAFIT TLT WIDE BRAKE 130MM
Does anyone know if these...
In deep snow you want "Powder Cords" not leashes.
On hard snow or on the lifts -- you want sturdy leashes or effective brakes.
But out in avi country, you don't want a leash and brakes are no help in finding a ski lost in deep snow.
Powder cords OTH are long (5-6ft) brightly colored ribbons that clip to your skiis and that you then stuff into the gaiters of your pants -- note they aren't "tied" to your body at all. ...
On hard snow or on the lifts -- you want sturdy leashes or effective brakes.
But out in avi country, you don't want a leash and brakes are no help in finding a ski lost in deep snow.
Powder cords OTH are long (5-6ft) brightly colored ribbons that clip to your skiis and that you then stuff into the gaiters of your pants -- note they aren't "tied" to your body at all. ...
Scotsman:
Interesting to read about your trouble with the B&D leashes. Sounds like there is no perfect solution. While I don't push for first tracks in the bc (there's enough for everybody on most tours) my brakes do drive me nuts sometimes. Most especially when they cause my heel to auto-rotate in deep snow. So obnoxious! Hang on to those leashes if you go back to brakes. I'd like to try them out.
Interesting to read about your trouble with the B&D leashes. Sounds like there is no perfect solution. While I don't push for first tracks in the bc (there's enough for everybody on most tours) my brakes do drive me nuts sometimes. Most especially when they cause my heel to auto-rotate in deep snow. So obnoxious! Hang on to those leashes if you go back to brakes. I'd like to try them out.
author=Joedabaker link=topic=17741.msg74933#msg74933 date=1288296694]
Providing that the one that is the first one up lets you go first as a an avalanche probe!
The turns in the middle of the 1st picture look like SauPow's nice tight turns on those new Manaslus ;)
Actually you are right: FriendlyMarks noodles in the middle. Mine aren't in the picuture. I went further to the looker's right.
Sin...
Interesting.
I consider transition times one of the" arts "of BC skiing and very important.
Good transition times result in briefer stops and people not becoming cold etc.
I'm always amazed at how transition times very between people.
There is one person (who shall be nameless) who I toured with who use to touch everything about 3 times and do his transitions in a different sequence nearly everytime. Very slow and frustrating to tour with as a result.
Tr...
I consider transition times one of the" arts "of BC skiing and very important.
Good transition times result in briefer stops and people not becoming cold etc.
I'm always amazed at how transition times very between people.
There is one person (who shall be nameless) who I toured with who use to touch everything about 3 times and do his transitions in a different sequence nearly everytime. Very slow and frustrating to tour with as a result.
Tr...
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74932#msg74932 date=1288295890]
... I think I still prefer the breakable leash concept to the fiddle factor of dynafit brakes in deep snow. I need to accept that in some falls the link is going to break same as in an avy but that I need to find the correct strength ratio so that they WILL break in an avy but still hold for most falls while skiing.. Maybe double zip ties.?
Might as well go for the trip...
That must have been someone else - I skinned up from the parking lot to the cat track.
Just saw a photo in the Oregonian of some people skiing w/ their dog at Timberline yesterday and was glad it wasn't me (the occasional strategic sick day sure comes in handy as long as your cover isn't blown :) )
Just saw a photo in the Oregonian of some people skiing w/ their dog at Timberline yesterday and was glad it wasn't me (the occasional strategic sick day sure comes in handy as long as your cover isn't blown :) )
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74932#msg74932 date=1288295890]
3) above. Fastest at transitions means first tracks!!!!
Providing that the one that is the first one up lets you go first as a an avalanche probe!
The turns in the middle of the 1st picture look like SauPow's nice tight turns on those new Manaslus ;)
author=ron j link=topic=17741.msg74930#msg74930 date=1288294945]
Good clarification, Andrew.
The ski brake suggestion was targeting Scotty's lack of confidence that the leash's fusible link would properly serve to hold on to the ski in a fall where you didn't want to lose it yet break so as to not keep the ski near you so if you happen to take "the Ride".
mmmmh. Why B&D ski leashes?
1) Brakes= I d...
author=andyrew link=topic=17741.msg74925#msg74925 date=1288293409] I suppose crashing less is one solution. ;D
Well that ain't going to happen anytime soon!
author=andyrew link=topic=17741.msg74925#msg74925 date=1288293409]
Would a ski brake help in that situation? I've seen plenty a ski, such as my own, go missing on deep days in that sort of crash. I sometimes wore powder cords last season, but those were a pain in the ass in their own way. I suppose crashing less is one solution. ;D
Good clarification, Andrew.
The ski brake suggestion was targeting Scotty's lack of con...
Nice, I thought about the Glade, but decided not to risk a hitch up T-line road late in the afternoon.
I think I saw you and your dog in front of the lodge by the pool wall. I had just finished, you looked to be just headed up, skis and boots on you back?
I think I saw you and your dog in front of the lodge by the pool wall. I had just finished, you looked to be just headed up, skis and boots on you back?
Had more fun on the up than the down. Oh well, it's October after all.
short vid of conditions
short vid of conditions
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74908#msg74908 date=1288281870]
Will do although I'm not sure there is a solution. Thinking about it last night I realized that in that fall I went over the handlebars and fell ahead of the ski , leaving it buried deep in the pow. For the breakway to have resisted that force it would have had to be strong enough to resist the force of a 200 lb guy travelling at 25 mph pulling directly on the leash. If it could withstand...
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74922#msg74922 date=1288289245">
Do they fit STS?
They fit the Vertical FT 12 and Vertical ST bindings.
author=ron j link=topic=17741.msg74920#msg74920 date=1288288491]
It will be good to deliver you back from the darkside.
sorry, staying in the darkside= much more fun and since I'm an aetheist... ultimate consequences of bad behaviour are irrelevant. ;)
author=ron j link=topic=17741.msg74921#msg74921 date=1288288948">
The challenges make you stronger young skywalker:
DYNAFIT TLT WIDE BRAKE 130MM
Do they fit STS?