TR Replies
Fair amount of consolidation today. On the steps above the Panorama Point overlook today there were 4+ inches of new snow over a wet, icy crust; the new snow slid while trying to skin up the lower step; FWIW. Lots of exposed rock around. Wet cement just above Paradise Parking Lot. However, nice nice powder on Pan Face for the ski down :-). But it sure looks like the present snow will be substantially consolidated, if not gone, by Wednesday.
holy cow Mark! thats a heck of an adventure!
welcome back to the snow :)
welcome back to the snow :)
author=CookieMonster link=topic=17755.msg75010#msg75010 date=1288377271]
why the 15 month streak of no skiing?
c.f., http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=593711&highlight=guiana
So, if you don't mind my asking: why the 15 month streak of no skiing? Inquiring minds want to know. ( But don't have to know. )
Glad to hear someone laid down some turns at Stevens. I was wondering how the skiing was up there...but decided I'd save my bases until a little more snow falls.
author=kneel turner link=topic=17741.msg75000#msg75000 date=1288372883]
I sometimes put a "leash" on my dog Chinook when he goes skiing with me and Nazi-dog-hater-skiers are around.
I had Chugach my Husky with me in the South Back this day and he got really tired by the end of the day due to all the postholing.
He gets back home and tells my wife Pam.
( in doggy language of course)
" Some best...
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg75005#msg75005 date=1288374960]
What I have discovered is that the zip- tie always fails at the clasp unless it has been cut.
That is not surprising to me at all. Climbing ropes can fail at knot points because of significantly higher stress concentrations. I imagine this is the case with zip ties as well.
^^^^^^ Yeah well you teleheads better get releasable bindings is all I have to say. ;) Always concerns me when I'm with a telehead in Avy terrain. Very well documented that skis on= much deeper burial=less survivability.
But you all know that already!
I'm pretty convinced that the zip-ties can be way stronger than people think and still reliably break in the forces expected in an avy.
What I have discovered is that the zip- tie always fails at the clasp unless it...
But you all know that already!
I'm pretty convinced that the zip-ties can be way stronger than people think and still reliably break in the forces expected in an avy.
What I have discovered is that the zip- tie always fails at the clasp unless it...
Welcome back Mark. Your insightful TR's have been missed. Please be careful in the early season so you may continue to provide the truly accurate representation of a journey into the wilds of snow country.
One of your many fans. ;)
Zap
One of your many fans. ;)
Zap
Hoar frost forms during clear cold nights, on surfaces that face the sky. There are two essential requirements for surface hoar formation: moisture supply from humid air and intense cooling of the snow surface from longwave radiation loss. Vegetation such as trees inhibits cooling by reflecting longwave radiation back at the snow.
Terrain features such as concave areas also reflect longwave radiation back into the snow cover, which will inhibit surface hoar formation in some places. T...
Terrain features such as concave areas also reflect longwave radiation back into the snow cover, which will inhibit surface hoar formation in some places. T...
Ummmmmmm..., What the "H" are you guys talking about?
I looked at my bindings, and they have a cable thingy with a flipiddy-doo on the back. I read the owner's manual, and it didn't say anything about "release" or this "DIN" thing you keep referring to. Is this bad?
I use Zip ties to fix the cable thingy when it breaks occasionally, and I sometimes put a "leash" on my dog Chinook when he goes skiing with me and Nazi-dog-h...
I looked at my bindings, and they have a cable thingy with a flipiddy-doo on the back. I read the owner's manual, and it didn't say anything about "release" or this "DIN" thing you keep referring to. Is this bad?
I use Zip ties to fix the cable thingy when it breaks occasionally, and I sometimes put a "leash" on my dog Chinook when he goes skiing with me and Nazi-dog-h...
Hey Sam, I ditto the really great pics comments ~ the video was fun, too - too bad we can't upload them directly here...
About your famousskiier website, I think I like it better when I thought that maybe you had, like, a secret handshake and a cadre of tele-babes... ;D
About your famousskiier website, I think I like it better when I thought that maybe you had, like, a secret handshake and a cadre of tele-babes... ;D
Yes thanks for the input Cookie.
Let's hope that there is no hoar frost layer that gets involved in this lower layer. I assume that the pack is low enough that there are enough shrubs and brush that it would eliminate most of the concern in the case of hoar frost.
What tends to be the trend in a early snowpack with a warmer (early season) ground and cold top surface? More rounding of the snow at the bottom near the ground?
Let's hope that there is no hoar frost layer that gets involved in this lower layer. I assume that the pack is low enough that there are enough shrubs and brush that it would eliminate most of the concern in the case of hoar frost.
What tends to be the trend in a early snowpack with a warmer (early season) ground and cold top surface? More rounding of the snow at the bottom near the ground?
Sure thing Sharks!
Hopefully the snow quality improves with additional consolidation or cold storms.
Hopefully the snow quality improves with additional consolidation or cold storms.
author=Joedabaker link=topic=17741.msg74993#msg74993 date=1288366802]
I'm not sure a drop test would give relevant results for an avalanche and stress on a zip tie.
In the several avalanches I have had the misfortune to experienced in my life. I have to compare and think that the static test that you gave earlier would have the best results of actual involvement. I have been involved in some doozies. I'm not saying that the information from a se...
I'm not sure a drop test would give relevant results for an avalanche and stress on a zip tie.
In the several avalanches I have had the misfortune to experienced in my life. I have to compare and think that the static test that you gave earlier would have the best results of actual involvement. I have been involved in some doozies. I'm not saying that the information from a series of drop tests would not form some relevant means.
Kam would have the best means to this type of...
In the several avalanches I have had the misfortune to experienced in my life. I have to compare and think that the static test that you gave earlier would have the best results of actual involvement. I have been involved in some doozies. I'm not saying that the information from a series of drop tests would not form some relevant means.
Kam would have the best means to this type of...
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74987#msg74987 date=1288333485]
I also think the zip ties can be far stronger than people think and still have confidence in breaking as once the bindings release, the skier and skis will tend to separate in the turbulent flow of the avy because of different size and shape ratios. This will cause considerable forces on the zip ties similar to the shock loading achieved in a yard sale.
What do think about that theory Coo...
Great pictures.
Chuck and I saw your tracks from Cougar Divide (one ridge to the east) where conditions were similar, including driving to the trailhead (4800ft). We chose Cougar Divide this day because the gate closes at Nooksack Falls on November 1. However, our day ended up mostly a tour - bushwhacking and skinning up the divide to its junction with Chowder Ridge, only making 3 short laps in the meadows. It was a beautiful day with Hadley Peak and Baker’s North Ridge route looking...
Chuck and I saw your tracks from Cougar Divide (one ridge to the east) where conditions were similar, including driving to the trailhead (4800ft). We chose Cougar Divide this day because the gate closes at Nooksack Falls on November 1. However, our day ended up mostly a tour - bushwhacking and skinning up the divide to its junction with Chowder Ridge, only making 3 short laps in the meadows. It was a beautiful day with Hadley Peak and Baker’s North Ridge route looking...
OK thats what I wanted to hear and confirms my theory, at least to me.
If a class 2 can suck off a pair of Fritschi's set at DIN 10, then the zip-ties on the leashes can be maximized to resist at least that force without causing concern that they won't break.( if the skis don't come off the zip ties are irrelevant)
I need to understand the forces relating to DIN 10 release to size the zip ties.
I also think the zip ties can be far stronger than people th...
If a class 2 can suck off a pair of Fritschi's set at DIN 10, then the zip-ties on the leashes can be maximized to resist at least that force without causing concern that they won't break.( if the skis don't come off the zip ties are irrelevant)
I need to understand the forces relating to DIN 10 release to size the zip ties.
I also think the zip ties can be far stronger than people th...
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74973#msg74973 date=1288321726]
Paging Cookiemonster! Any info on forces within a class 2 avy?
There isn't really a rule of thumb.
Size 2 involves about 1000 cubic metres of snow, which works out to around 1-5kPa. This is enough to break windows, push in a door, and damage a wood framed structure. These forces are concentrated in the front of the avalanche, and could increase significa...
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74970#msg74970 date=1288320382]
I guess my experience of having problems is just as valid as your experience of care-free dynabraking, no?
Absolutely Scotsman. I also think the ~5 mm riser plates I have may also allow the brakes to retract better and stay in place such that snow build up is not a problem. My routine involves stepping into the heel before removing skins, which tends to serve me w...
Awesome! Can't wait to get down south.
Hello All - weighing in on the side of break away leashes, it seems to me that whatever cable tie connection we settle on, it will need to be a compromise between the sudden loading of that forward launching yardsale vs. the perhaps slower initial loading, hence failure by stretching (yielding?) before snapping which might occur in an avalanche. Any mechanical engineers out there that can weigh in? Having nearly lost an eye and earned at least 30 stitch's in my scalp from rotating l...
author=Randy link=topic=17741.msg74975#msg74975 date=1288325249]
So more of a style issue eh? -- What if the ribbons had a tartan pattern?
Nope, still ain't doing it. Sorry.
Don't care if they were made from woven pubic hair plucked from unicorns! ain't wearing them. nnnoooo way!
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74966#msg74966 date=1288318517]
True but I still can't go there.... I've actually seen people skiing with them trailing behind them.
It's nearly as goofy as those people that have flags on their poles!!!!!! aaaahhh. Makes me shudder.
So more of a style issue eh? -- What if the ribbons had a tartan pattern?
Research on Zip tie strength.
"Our smallest nylon ties (item 17-03) have a 40-pound breaking strength and are not recommended for deer fencing, being better suited to dog fencing and other tasks. The heavier nylon ties (items 17-04 and 17-06) have a breaking strength of 120 pounds, come in both 8-inch and 14-inch lengths, and are suitable for attaching deer fencing to metal posts."
Another link here.
http://www.actfs.com/CatalogProducts.asp?nProductsID=...
"Our smallest nylon ties (item 17-03) have a 40-pound breaking strength and are not recommended for deer fencing, being better suited to dog fencing and other tasks. The heavier nylon ties (items 17-04 and 17-06) have a breaking strength of 120 pounds, come in both 8-inch and 14-inch lengths, and are suitable for attaching deer fencing to metal posts."
Another link here.
http://www.actfs.com/CatalogProducts.asp?nProductsID=...
author=Mofro link=topic=17741.msg74957#msg74957 date=1288310574]
Not if you're going to fall and lose a ski... ;D
The BC bible says" Let he who has not fallen cast the first snowball" ;D
author=Mofro link=topic=17741.msg74957#msg74957 date=1288310574]
I haven't noticed dyna brakes being a nuisance in transition time for me,
See thats just not my experience. I've been complaining about dynabrakes for a long time especially in deep snow. My experience has ALWAYS been that they become problematic in deep snow, get clumped up, ice under the brake ( not to mention the toe-piece) . Not to mention the auto rot...
author=ron j link=topic=17741.msg74937#msg74937 date=1288298120]
Might as well go for the triple ties. As far a I know the ties don't really have standardized or rated breaking strength so who knows what you really need or at what actual load each individual tie will break at.
Looked up the B&D website and it says "Cable ties(supplied) in vinyl tube provide a breaking strength of approximately 50 lbf and 70 lbf&quo...
author=Randy link=topic=17741.msg74959#msg74959 date=1288313061]
Yeah -- I can see that -- I guess it is a question of choosing between farting around stuffing the powder cords back into your gaiters after ripping skins vs. sifting around in the snow after "yard sale"
True but I still can't go there.... I've actually seen people skiing with them trailing behind them.
It's nearly as goofy as those peo...
video link (also added up top)
http://www.vimeo.com/16296262
http://www.vimeo.com/16296262
author=samthaman link=topic=17741.msg74945#msg74945 date=1288306598">
Does anyone know if the 130 mm Dynafit brake can be bent to fit a 138MM ski? I almost lost one of my lotus's (loti?) yesterday, and I'd like for that not to happen.
Sam - I'd tend to support Mofro on the matter.
I would hate to see someone blow 80 frogpelts on my say so alone, but were I in your shoes I would go for it and here's...
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74946#msg74946 date=1288306987]
Seen people use them but they look a pain in the ass at transitions and I just can't bring myself to go there but thanks for the advice.
Yeah -- I can see that -- I guess it is a question of choosing between farting around stuffing the powder cords back into your gaiters after ripping skins vs. sifting around in the snow after "yard sale"
Sweet pictures, especially the last one! How deep was the snow up there, hit any rocks? Can't wait for the weekend.
author=Scotsman link=topic=17741.msg74939#msg74939 date=1288300574]
Since I now have an ABS pack it thought it was agreed I always get first tracks from now on???
Not if you're going to fall and lose a ski... ;D
I haven't noticed dyna brakes being a nuisance in transition time for me, but I also haven't asked if I was being a nuiance to anyone else.
Sam, not sure if the tolerances hold tr...
Well played, gentlemen.
A fools hope for sure but might as well head up there tomorrow and see if the warming has left beind any surivors...
A fools hope for sure but might as well head up there tomorrow and see if the warming has left beind any surivors...
you could, you also could hike a mile or so before you hit skin-able snow though.
sooo, you could drive to the trailhead????
author=skier8484 link=topic=17751.msg74948#msg74948 date=1288308016]
Definitely one of the finer October days I've had in the mountains.
Great pictures per norm Sam. Almost makes it worth waiting for you guys to setup your shots ;)
hey, i'm way faster than allen who is "faster than blah blah blah blah...."
speaking of which, a video is on the way, but the slow internet out here is putt...
Red Lotus 138's.....and powder. Beautiful pics.
I need to learn how to take photps like that.
I need to learn how to take photps like that.
Definitely one of the finer October days I've had in the mountains.
Great pictures per norm Sam. Almost makes it worth waiting for you guys to setup your shots ;)
Great pictures per norm Sam. Almost makes it worth waiting for you guys to setup your shots ;)
looks like a bit more snow there than over on skyline, good show!
author=Randy link=topic=17741.msg74944#msg74944 date=1288306283]
In deep snow you want "Powder Cords" not leashes.
Seen people use them but they look a pain in the ass at transitions and I just can't bring myself to go there but thanks for the advice.
author=ron j link=topic=17741.msg74921#msg74921 date=1288288948">
The challenges make you stronger young skywalker:
DYNAFIT TLT WIDE BRAKE 130MM
Does anyone know if these...
In deep snow you want "Powder Cords" not leashes.
On hard snow or on the lifts -- you want sturdy leashes or effective brakes.
But out in avi country, you don't want a leash and brakes are no help in finding a ski lost in deep snow.
Powder cords OTH are long (5-6ft) brightly colored ribbons that clip to your skiis and that you then stuff into the gaiters of your pants -- note they aren't "tied" to your body at all. ...
On hard snow or on the lifts -- you want sturdy leashes or effective brakes.
But out in avi country, you don't want a leash and brakes are no help in finding a ski lost in deep snow.
Powder cords OTH are long (5-6ft) brightly colored ribbons that clip to your skiis and that you then stuff into the gaiters of your pants -- note they aren't "tied" to your body at all. ...
Scotsman:
Interesting to read about your trouble with the B&D leashes. Sounds like there is no perfect solution. While I don't push for first tracks in the bc (there's enough for everybody on most tours) my brakes do drive me nuts sometimes. Most especially when they cause my heel to auto-rotate in deep snow. So obnoxious! Hang on to those leashes if you go back to brakes. I'd like to try them out.
Interesting to read about your trouble with the B&D leashes. Sounds like there is no perfect solution. While I don't push for first tracks in the bc (there's enough for everybody on most tours) my brakes do drive me nuts sometimes. Most especially when they cause my heel to auto-rotate in deep snow. So obnoxious! Hang on to those leashes if you go back to brakes. I'd like to try them out.
author=Joedabaker link=topic=17741.msg74933#msg74933 date=1288296694]
Providing that the one that is the first one up lets you go first as a an avalanche probe!
The turns in the middle of the 1st picture look like SauPow's nice tight turns on those new Manaslus ;)
Actually you are right: FriendlyMarks noodles in the middle. Mine aren't in the picuture. I went further to the looker's right.
Sin...