TR Replies

author=Rusty Knees link=topic=17783.msg75148#msg75148 date=1288639431]
Amen, Brothuh - preach it!

Nice change! Totele! :D

JMiller- Good to hear you were able to experience the goods, as well. I had heard the same in regards to Saturday...

11/1/10 1:35pm

nedski

not to be an alarmist, but I wonder if those caterpillars were for an upcoming chairlift into Bullion?

11/1/10 1:24pm

Marcus

My understanding of a climax slide is one that takes the entire snowpack, so this would qualify.

11/1/10 12:07pm

Robie

Here's what I know
Maritime snowpack
Lee loaded slope
trees and cliff faces holding snow
A warming rain event
a steep slope below without anchors.

Here's what I'm unsure of The term "climax avalanche " Would this apply here or is this term reserved for spring.

Might be interesting to see what's up there after today???

11/1/10 11:56am

ron j

author=vogtski link=topic=17747.msg75158#msg75158 date=1288645293]
I wonder about the rain explanation. Was this the only slide that day? Wouldn't rain have likely produced other slides nearby?

If memory serves there may have been one or two surface sloughs of the light overnight deposition but certainly nothing even close to the depth of the one pictured above.

author=vogtski link=topic=1774...

11/1/10 10:21am

CookieMonster

author=natefred]Not related to this situation, but: I thought hoar at the bottom of the pack is the weak layer which typically makes climax slides possible. Forms early season with shallow pack and cold temps, and may persist until additional load results in a slide. Yeah temp's warmer than freezing cause melt, I guess my point was "earth warm, snow cold", they are next to each other and therefore temperature gradient will be quite high. Sure looks l...

11/1/10 9:14am

Scotsman

author=natefred link=topic=17747.msg75168#msg75168 date=1288652905] Forms early season with shallow pack and cold temps, and may persist until additional load results in a slide.

Yeah temp's warmer than freezing cause melt, I guess my point was "earth warm, snow cold", they are next to each other and therefore temperature gradient will be quite high.

Think the first sentence more applicable to Continental s...

11/1/10 8:42am

Nate Frederickson

author=CookieMonster link=topic=17747.msg75164#msg75164 date=1288648085]

When I google "wet glide climax", I get a bunch of links that are NSFW!

oops, that's what I meant to imply, you need to add 'avalanche' to stay out of trouble!

Not related to this situation, but: I thought hoar at the bottom of the pack is the weak layer which typically makes climax slides possible. Forms early season...

11/1/10 8:08am

CookieMonster

I hate to slice and dice so much, but I'll try to answer your questions.

author=natefred] Earth at some temperature greater than freezing, snow on top of it at some lower temperature, small gaps due to groundcover where crystals have room to grow. Would it have been possible for faceting to occur despite the warm air temps?

I have never heard of this explanation in any literature that I have ever read. If you're curious,...

11/1/10 6:48am

Nate Frederickson

when I google "wet glide climax" (okay you have to include "avalanche" to get meaningful results..), 1st hit has info about wet slabs being initiated by water percolating to and lubricating an existing weak layer. sure seems like grass or similar vegation makes a good 'weak layer', at least it can be damn slippery when wet. if faceting were an issue probably some other slightly better anchored slopes would have slid?

I'm having a "doh" mome...

11/1/10 6:13am

Gary Vogt

Oldtimers used to call that shallow saddle below Pan Point & the nearby overlook into Edith Basin 'Angel's Landing'. My name for the slope where the slide occured is 'Angel Face'.

I wonder about the rain explanation. Was this the only slide that day? Wouldn't rain have likely produced other slides nearby?

I've noticed over several decades that 'Angel Face' consistently produces large glide cracks each Spring exactly in...

11/1/10 6:01am

Charlie Hagedorn

Did anyone get a look at a similar pit at the same time on the same day on the same aspect at the same elevation? The crown?

There are no substitutes for accurate, precise, and representative observations.

Also, that slope is almost as anchor-free as they get. There's a whole subfield of study on wet glide climax avalanches on smoothly vegetated slopes in Japan.

11/1/10 5:36am

Nate Frederickson

Cookie,
Totally agree that air temp is big factor in overall gradient in the pack. But isn't the key simply the existence of a temperature gradient (whatever's causing it), especially a high local gradient?

Earth at some temperature greater than freezing, snow on top of it at some lower temperature, small gaps due to groundcover where crystals have room to grow. Would it have been possible for faceting to occur despite the warm air temps? Heck if I know. So far I'm...

11/1/10 5:27am

cchapin

awesome photos, that's amazing, thanks for sharing

11/1/10 4:58am

ron j

author=andyrew link=topic=17747.msg75145#msg75145 date=1288637924">
Wow, I skied that shot on Wednesday, and stayed as far skiers left as I could without getting into the mini-gully. Thanks for the pics. A good reminder that even small terrain can have bad consequences with the wrong conditions.

Good point.
That gully you refer to skier's right of the subject slide I refer to as "

11/1/10 4:34am

Rusty Knees

author=~Link~ link=topic=17783.msg75128#msg75128 date=1288622812]
With all do respect, changed to lower case, which is implicit of falling rain as originally intended; the uppercase was somewhat ambiguous. :)

Nonetheless, if we're going to get that evangelical, you might reconsider your TAY quote, Rusty... ;)

Amen, Brothuh - preach it!

11/1/10 4:23am

andyrew

Wow, I skied that shot on Wednesday, and stayed as far skiers left as I could without getting into the mini-gully. Thanks for the pics. A good reminder that even small terrain can have bad consequences with the wrong conditions.

11/1/10 3:58am

CookieMonster

author=natefred link=topic=17747.msg75140#msg75140 date=1288635342]
Thanks for the conditions info and great pics.

Huh. Here's my thinking: Since it's the relative warmth of the ground and the coldness of the snow that creates the temperature gradient promoting faceting at the bottom of the pack, if the ground is warmer than it would be mid-winter then I guess the somewhat warmer ground could further encourage faceting. If the ground were...

11/1/10 3:42am

khyak

Here's my thinking. It rained a lot!

11/1/10 3:38am

Nate Frederickson

Thanks for the conditions info and great pics.

author=Joedabaker link=topic=17747.msg74998#msg74998 date=1288370614]

What tends to be the trend in a early snowpack with a warmer (early season) ground and cold top surface? More rounding of the snow at the bottom near the ground?

Huh. Here's my thinking: Since it's the relative warmth of the ground and the coldness of the snow that creates the temper...

11/1/10 3:15am

CookieMonster

Ron, Thanks for the amazing photos. Looks like a Size 2 to me.

11/1/10 2:56am

jmiller

October 31, 2010, - ONP Hurricane Ridge

A buddy and I also got some great turns in yesterday. The sunshine was a pleasant surprise, as was the new snow on top. We skied up Edith Basin to Mazama, and did a couple of laps, not the softest of snow, but new and movable none the less. It was way better than Sat. when we were in the clouds on top of the ridge, and the snow was very technical. Any time in the snowy mountains is always a good time though!

11/1/10 2:50am

runcle

Great to meet you all too. It was a glorious day up there especially for October turns!

I think you had the best of the weather and snow. Skiing in the flat light and crust was a real challenge on the descent!

11/1/10 2:12am

Joedabaker

Way to get it.
I'm surprised that the skiing was that good. I was tempted to get up there, but to much fiddling around still. ;)

That road has been there forever and a day.

11/1/10 1:36am

Turtle

Hood 26, 27 and 30

2 more, stupid phone takes great pictures.......

11/1/10 12:02am

~Link~

author=Rusty Knees link=topic=17783.msg75126#msg75126 date=1288619077]
Hush, child! - you're not supposed to utter the "weather that shall not be named" I'd advise you to modify your post before Ullr wakes up furious.

With all do respect, changed to lower case, which is implicit of falling rain as originally intended; the uppercase was somewhat ambiguous. :)

Nonetheless, if we�...

10/31/10 11:46pm

Rusty Knees

Hush, child! - you're not supposed to utter the "weather that shall not be named" I'd advise you to modify your post before Ullr wakes up furious.

10/31/10 10:44pm

cmosetick

October 31, 2010, - ONP Hurricane Ridge

Hey Rusty Knees and Telemack! I miss skiing with you guys! Mack, thanks for the compliment, but I'm hardly the first guy up there this year, unless what I was seeing was a mostly buried snowshoe track rather than skin track. :)

lolob, surprisingly my skis did not get dinged today. I was even kinda expecting a few new scratches, but I got out clean. If I were able to do laps up high today, then I really would not have had anything to worry about, as it was surprisingly deep wh...

10/31/10 2:58pm

telemack

Lookin' good up there for the end of October!

10/31/10 2:35pm

telemack

That's early for Bullion, Mosetick; way to lead the charge.

10/31/10 2:33pm

lolob

Mosetick, did you hit any rocks on your way down or was the snow deep enough to keep you from dinging your skis? Sounds like a nice day on the snow...it sure was a beautiful day in Seattle...wish I had been skiing instead of moving into a new house.

10/31/10 2:25pm

Rusty Knees

Hey, Chris! I wondered about you, today. Glad you got your turns in. We should have talked. I took my Br-in-law out to Paradise for his first time on AT gear. Sounds like we had the same snow and weather.

10/31/10 2:13pm

~Link~

Hell of a release. Took several photos of it from Mazama Ridge today.

10/31/10 2:07pm

ron j

October 26, 2010, Stevens Pass; Demise of a Streak

Here's some shots of the slide Robie mentioned:

More shots from a slightly different angle

10/31/10 1:00pm

markharf

I broke off a healthy chunk of the agglomerated Fig Newtons, then saved the rest of the wad for next time out. FWIW, they tasted just about the same as ever.

Thanks for the welcome(s).

Mark

10/31/10 12:31pm

Robie

I'd be guessing but maybe 5 or 6 ' .Ron J has a pic and will post it.
There was some rain up there as well so could have been lubed up. It didn't run up hill any but stopped as slope flattened out.

10/31/10 12:15pm

CookieMonster

October 30, 2010, Paradise

Robie, Thanks for the observation. Sounds like a classic thaw-induced slab. Do you have any idea about the depth of the deposit?

10/31/10 12:01pm

tele.skier

I was up there also, with a buddy on saturday. We stopped short of pan point where the white out began. Whatever fresh snow that had fallen was now consolidated. The consolidated snow was softened enough to catch your edge, but not soft enough to feather easily with your ski. I augered in more than a few times using the various excuses of: whiteout vertigo, first day using my new boots, too much time spent on the couch this summer, and simple old age.

A fresh hit of snow is needed to...

10/31/10 11:32am

Robie

Cookie, back to the subject at hand somewhere between your observations on the 27th and today the 31th there was a down to the ground slide in Edith basin SE aspect on the north end of ALta Vista ridge.just south of the saddle with pan point ridge. Most likely triggered by warming snow on trees or cliff face . Side walls better than 2' . Took the whole thing down to the flats.500'long perhaps 80' wide.
We steered clear of similar.
sorry no photos I left my chip at home.<...

10/31/10 11:21am

cornRIDE

Hogback, 10/30/2010

good to meet you at the brewery glenn! good times to be had up on hogsback this year.

trevor

10/31/10 11:01am

~Link~

???

What is this, AMWAY?

10/30/10 1:48pm

The Snow Troopers

Hello my name is Tim & I too AM an Alpentalic who loves to ski lifts, bc, or simply do ski skin walk up to check out my favorite stompin grounds Silver Peak as I did last night (ready for some turns next big dump). I live on Snoqualmie Pass, which many of you know, and now drive an eight hundred dollar awd mini cause that's what could afford. The bright side of the mini van is not only how hip they have become again but the fact it can haul 6 of my best ski friends which you could be on...

10/30/10 6:34am

CookieMonster

Oct 27 Crystal Southback pow

Oh I'm sure that he would address me directly if he had something to say.

10/30/10 4:19am

Scotsman

author=Clawskinner link=topic=17741.msg75057#msg75057 date=1288463828]
I saw his prints on my way up. Was 20 minutes behind you. Got me thinking about buying a pup soon. I have not been able to do it since mine died 15 yrs ago. It was a good day.

Yea I understand. Took me years to get over the early death of my beloved Boris, a Great Dane I had.
Touring with your dog can be so rewarding. I love it.
Get your puppy.

10/30/10 3:47am

Scotsman

author=CookieMonster link=topic=17747.msg75059#msg75059 date=1288463844]
No pictures, no video.

I'm not sure what you mean about the relationship between spending more time on the lifts and having more fun on the way down. Can you clarify?

I think he was trying to say that your skiing would improve if you rode the lifts more.
He's obviously ticked off about your comments regrading spammy posts on TGR but...

10/30/10 3:43am

CookieMonster

Oct 27 Crystal Southback pow

author=The Snow Troopers link=topic=17747.msg75051#msg75051 date=1288459055]
If you spend a little more time on the lifts the backcountry skiing will become fun on the way down too!

Way to get after it thought... Any pics or vid?

BEST,

TNT

No pictures, no video.

I'm not sure what you mean about the relationship between spending more time on the lifts and having more fun on the way...

10/30/10 3:37am

Clawskinner

I saw his prints on my way up. Was 20 minutes behind you. Got me thinking about buying a pup soon. I have not been able to do it since mine died 15 yrs ago. It was a good day.

10/30/10 3:37am

The Snow Troopers