Avalanches on Red and Granite

Snowshoes need to be regulated.  There are far too many deaths/accidents involving snowshoes.  Perhaps background checks and a permitting system. 

Seriously, the Cascades are a REAL mountain range that do not suffer fools easily.  These accidents will continue to happen when such a range is so easily accessible to such a large city with such a large number of "outdoor enthusiasts". 

It is my personal opinion that a winter backcountry license should be required of anyone going backcountry on public lands when snow is on the ground with a special license for those leading trips.   The Mountaineers requires specific levels of training before members participate in various activities and they require trip leaders to meet stringent criteria.  People can not get a Driver's license or a hunting license without passing a test or completing a course, respectively.  No need to make it onerous.  Let the Mountaineers or other organized OR group devise a test that can be taken on line; pass the test, get the license; to pass the test one has to learn about dangers, equipment, and KSAs (knowledge, skills, and abilities) for various activities (and the test can inform them where they might get such information).

It is my fervent belief (based on conversations with a wider range of park employees) that the winter closures at MRNP this year were not principally due to budget, or even lack of plow drivers, but due to the Law Enforcement and Safety officers who most likely got poor performance ratings for the deaths of 2 rangers (Anderson and Hall) and the deaths of the 2 climbers, 2 snowshoeing campers, 1 snowshoeing psychologist, the young fathers sliding under the snow into Edith Creek above Myrtle Falls, and the S&R required for other campers and snowshoers who were lost, including the 2 snowboarders and the Korean-America senior citizen trip leader.

I believe many of us, who have had extensive training in bc travel, avalanche avoidance and rescue, wilderness first aid, etc. are paying the price for ignorance of the vast majority of new bc enthusiasts, facilitated by the development of cheap, easy to use snowshoes and their advertisement by sporting goods mfrs and retailers, local newspapers, and the park and forest employees; IMHO, in the days of XC, tele, and AT skiing only a decade to a few decades ago, most people got training from groups like the Mountaineers and when they advanced, from professional guides etc.  That does not seem to be as common today.

Yes, I realize that requirements for education, training, and responsibility are un-American.

It is my personal opinion that a winter backcountry license should be required of anyone going backcountry on public lands when snow is on the ground with a special license for those leading trips. 

Why stop there? People do stupid things in the summer too and in the city. Maybe we should require a special license for anyone who ventures out-of-doors. You should have to pass a safety test to go for a run or a walk around the block, or to do some yardwork in your own back yard.

Just wanted to make folks aware that the following sign is posted at both trailheads (Granite/Pratt and PCT-N Commonwealth), which each group walked pasts Saturday.  Appreciate all the suggestions for more signage and wouldn't want to discourage further dicussions.  Just wanted to let you know what is currently in place.  We've found the Ranger district (North Bend) extremely helpful in allowing us to put signs and beacon station in place, with some reservation toward over billboarding a wilderness area.  I'll check back on this thread for additional suggestions to improve the signage.  We (Cascade Backcountry Ski Patrol) currently has a permit for placing signs at these trailheads and would love to see them improve awareness and safe travel decision making.

Andy: A huge thanks to you and the rest of your crew!

I do have a suggestion on the sign. The first thing a person sees is "staying alive in avalanche terrain". I think many of the people you are trying to reach, noobs, will just dismiss this saying" oh we're not going into avalanche terrain, we're just going up hear a little bit". Maybe change that to something like "avalanche have killed x number of people on this trail".

Again, thanks or your efforts!

Thanks Andy, I can't imagine a more effective sign. That seems to cover it.

I think the sign is helpful -- from the media reports on the Red Mtn accident it appears that it might be beneficial to have a chinese language version of the sign as well.

lawn mowers are super sporty.
bF

But seriously, I want to emphasize my sympathy for the victims and their family.
It's a major tragedy for the community, and I always hope that this huge type of loss can make an impact on the rest.
I was one of the ignorant at one time. A snowshoer that did not think that avy stuff applied to me. Only skiers and climbers had to worry.

I had to take a course and WANT to learn about it. I don't blame the ignorant, so who holds the responsibility?
I certainly don't think we need to handhold folks that want to go into the mountains. It's at that point they need to make the decision on what they need to do to prepare or educate themselves.

It was a great weekend for skiing in bounds. I only got out Sunday and saw nothing moving in bounds.
I did notice these crowns in Chair Peak basin: www.flickr.com/photos/millcreekmm/8653120279/in/photostream

Randy and I charged Elevator gate once it opened and didn't notice any instability on those slopes. Hell, even after Randy went Phat to Flat ( www.flickr.com/photos/millcreekmm/8653118791/in/photostream ), still nothing moved.