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Avalanches on Red and Granite
- RossB
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12 years 10 months ago - 12 years 10 months ago #209466
by RossB
Replied by RossB on topic Re: Avalanches on Red and Granite
Great idea Charlie. For that trailhead, it is worth mentioning that you can simply continue on the Pratt Lake trail, rather than going up Granite Mountain. Pratt Lake wasn't safe yesterday, but it was a lot safer.
Fred Beckey's book specifically mentions the dangerous nature of Granite in the winter. He also mentions that if you decide to go, you should stick to the ridge. I'm afraid these folks were ignorant of this advice. My guess is that they just looked at a map and decided to go.
The Commonwealth Basin accident is, in many ways, more alarming. Commonwealth Basin would probably be one of those places on that sign that would be recommended. Of course, just about any snowshoe or ski book will tell you not to go too far towards Red Mountain if the snow is unstable. It is like Gold Creek Basin -- a great place for kids and novices to play in the snow but you need to know when to turn around.
My advice to people when they ask about getting out in the snow is to buy a guide book and stick to those spots. It isn't like the summer when you can just grab a Green Trails map and go. The books do a good job of explaining where the likely avalanche spots are. If a route (like Granite) is not mentioned in a snowshoe book, chances are it is dangerous. Of course you don't want to rely too much on the books (and assume a spot is safe because the route says so) but the books also mention that as well.
Fred Beckey's book specifically mentions the dangerous nature of Granite in the winter. He also mentions that if you decide to go, you should stick to the ridge. I'm afraid these folks were ignorant of this advice. My guess is that they just looked at a map and decided to go.
The Commonwealth Basin accident is, in many ways, more alarming. Commonwealth Basin would probably be one of those places on that sign that would be recommended. Of course, just about any snowshoe or ski book will tell you not to go too far towards Red Mountain if the snow is unstable. It is like Gold Creek Basin -- a great place for kids and novices to play in the snow but you need to know when to turn around.
My advice to people when they ask about getting out in the snow is to buy a guide book and stick to those spots. It isn't like the summer when you can just grab a Green Trails map and go. The books do a good job of explaining where the likely avalanche spots are. If a route (like Granite) is not mentioned in a snowshoe book, chances are it is dangerous. Of course you don't want to rely too much on the books (and assume a spot is safe because the route says so) but the books also mention that as well.
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- Charlie Hagedorn
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12 years 10 months ago #209467
by Charlie Hagedorn
Replied by Charlie Hagedorn on topic Re: Avalanches on Red and Granite
Agreed, though such a sign should cater to the very inexperienced. If you're following tracks, it can be easy to miss the Pratt turn. If you know what's up, you'll know.
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- Chuck C
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12 years 10 months ago #209468
by Chuck C
Replied by Chuck C on topic Re: Avalanches on Red and Granite
Not convinced signs will do much to help. People ignore them all the time. I've talked to people at Source Lake who asked what that sign was for. They had no clue about the sign, the terrain or anything regarding their situation. Look at signs at ski areas. No one heeds them.
Having a web address won't help if you don't have a way to access the information, don't have the education to understand the information and don't have the personal responsibility to act on that information.
Really the only effective measure is getting people to control themselves and be willing to change plans or turn around. Education, signage, ad campaigns don't work if not applied. I know that's nothing new to anyone on this site. People can do this, its just hard.
To agree with Marcus though. Thanks to the people who put themselves out there yesterday and maybe today in rough conditions into the night to help out those who needed it.
Having a web address won't help if you don't have a way to access the information, don't have the education to understand the information and don't have the personal responsibility to act on that information.
Really the only effective measure is getting people to control themselves and be willing to change plans or turn around. Education, signage, ad campaigns don't work if not applied. I know that's nothing new to anyone on this site. People can do this, its just hard.
To agree with Marcus though. Thanks to the people who put themselves out there yesterday and maybe today in rough conditions into the night to help out those who needed it.
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- Jonathan_S.
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12 years 10 months ago #209469
by Jonathan_S.
Replied by Jonathan_S. on topic Re: Avalanches on Red and Granite
This seems to be the most recent update:
seattletimes.com/html/localnews/20207762...anchemissingxml.html
(The solo -- but for her dog -- female snowboarder who was extricated by the nearby snowshoers had been pronounced dead at the scene, despite initial reports to the contrary. A "very experienced hiker" is still "missing" but that sure sounds like a second fatality.)
I would say I'm surprised by anyone out recreating in the backcountry given all the heavy loading we saw at Alpental yesterday (plus the deafening charges that greeted us in the parking lot), but it actually pales in comparison to the generalized incompetence and even utterly terrifying travel techniques we saw the prior day on St Helens.
seattletimes.com/html/localnews/20207762...anchemissingxml.html
(The solo -- but for her dog -- female snowboarder who was extricated by the nearby snowshoers had been pronounced dead at the scene, despite initial reports to the contrary. A "very experienced hiker" is still "missing" but that sure sounds like a second fatality.)
I would say I'm surprised by anyone out recreating in the backcountry given all the heavy loading we saw at Alpental yesterday (plus the deafening charges that greeted us in the parking lot), but it actually pales in comparison to the generalized incompetence and even utterly terrifying travel techniques we saw the prior day on St Helens.
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- Splitboard Graham
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12 years 10 months ago #209470
by Splitboard Graham
Replied by Splitboard Graham on topic Re: Avalanches on Red and Granite
I agree that a warning sign may have little effect, but on the other hand, if it prevents the need for a single rescue, or saves one life, it would more than pay for its self. no harm in installing a sign.
I was very nervous about conditions we encountered in the Stevens side country yesterday, and glad we opted to ride lifts.
Anyone know if any of the groups were carrying beacons, shovels, probes?
My thoughts are with those affected. Huge gratitude to SAR.
I was very nervous about conditions we encountered in the Stevens side country yesterday, and glad we opted to ride lifts.
Anyone know if any of the groups were carrying beacons, shovels, probes?
My thoughts are with those affected. Huge gratitude to SAR.
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- Marcus
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12 years 10 months ago #209471
by Marcus
Replied by Marcus on topic Re: Avalanches on Red and Granite
I believe the Granite accident had little to no avy equipment on scene. Not sure about the Red accident.
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