Avalanches on Red and Granite

Of course what is needed is people thinking for themselves, in an intelligent, informed way, making their own decisions on what risks they want to take.

But do we have that?  IMHE at Mt. Rainier NP, we certainly do not.

If your theory about the Mt Rainier winter closures is correct (that they are driven by fear of accidents involving the public) then I suspect this will be a temporary problem. Be patient and keep applying pressure to make the park more open.

We've been going through a period of rapid change in the popularity of winter recreation. Institutions don't react to change easily. They hunker down and get defensive. But over time I think they tend to open up again. Think about how ski areas used to manage their boundaries compared to today. If closures at Rainier are due to paranoia about more accidents, this may subside with time, as the Park Service in general gets used to the increased level of winter activity. It may take a while, though.

what if there was also a dry erase type board that backcountry skiers could write their own observations on at the trail head?

About 100' into the hike up Mt. Glory from Teton Pass there is a whiteboard with very recent slide info scribbled on it. It is a good idea because it gets time critical info to users quicker.

First off, on behalf of the Friends and NWAC, our condolences to all affected by these two avalanche incidents.

I thought that I should chime in here regarding signage and submitting information to the forecast team. 

We feel that warning signs, beacon checkers, and misc. awareness/conditions postings at trailheads will not stop all accidents from happening; however, this type of outreach does have the potential to change the behavior of some users and is therefore worth having at popular trailheads.  Entry level users may be the user group that gets the most benefit from signage stating that avalanche terrain exists on a particular route and avy safety gear and education are needed/recommended. 

As for improving real-time observations to the forecast team, the best way is to submit an observation to the GIS Danger Rose Display on the NWAC website.  The forecasters check these continually throughout their forecast shift.  You can submit both snow and weather obs and avalanche obs along with the ability to attach images to your report.  The submitted observations are also available to the public to sort though and view. 

Here’s the link to submit your observations.

As many of you are already aware, daily forecasts have ended for the season and we will issue public warnings as needed.  Continuing to submit observations to the GIS map will help improve the timing and accuracy of future warnings. 

If you have any questions or comments regarding observations and signage (or anything NWAC related), feel free to drop me a line and let’s chat about how we can continue to improve.

Safe Travels,

Scott Schell
Program Director
scott@nwac.us

so.. with the continued possibility of significant snow in the mountains, why do NWAC forecasts end now? If, as all the signs say, responsible backcountry travelers are supposed to check NWAC before going into the mountains, why does NWAC stop forecasting long before the hazard has gone away? It strikes me as a startlingly mixed message

so.. with the continued possibility of significant snow in the mountains, why do NWAC forecasts end now? If, as all the signs say, responsible backcountry travelers are supposed to check NWAC before going into the mountains, why does NWAC stop forecasting long before the hazard has gone away? It strikes me as a startlingly mixed message

funding

1. I don't necessarily agree with the second-guessing of NWAC's rating for Saturday. I kept a close look on the NWAC site Friday night/Saturday morning, and I didn't see any inconsistencies between the avalanche rating on the NWAC site and the moderate snowfall, high winds, and temperatures reported on the telemetry. We were up commonwealth but stayed in the trees and out of the wind where there was no noticeable slab, and there were many groups that experienced nothing beyond sluff on steeper rollovers. I'm sure on windy faces (like Red) it was significantly worse, but after reviewing the definition of a 'high' day, I'm not sure that Saturday's conditions warrant this. By continually increasing the rating of the day to 'high', you cause many to discount the dangers of 'moderate' and 'considerable' days.

...or maybe it was a 'high' day.

We were on the East (lakes) side of the ridge that heads up to Kendall, having arrived through the stumps. Conditions were very different on that side from your description---cracking, remote triggering, and collapsing tree wells. I think the east side was more wind loaded. Definitely on the more dangerous end of considerable....