Avalanches on Red and Granite

Snowshoes need to be regulated. There are far too many deaths/accidents involving snowshoes. Perhaps background checks and a permitting system.

Seriously, the Cascades are a REAL mountain range that do not suffer fools easily. These accidents will continue to happen when such a range is so easily accessible to such a large city with such a large number of "outdoor enthusiasts".

This is truly a sad event... feel really sorry for friends and family of the victims!
I respect the signage that is posted. It is tough when the group does not question the elements. I catch myself pondering questions, even yesterday when traveling around. Some places looked benign, but have had a history of slides so the option was to go around and it worked out much safer.


One nitpick is that the sign says travel one person at a time across a slope, but shows people hiking in a conga line like that is OK? I mean it's ok in low avy areas, but on exposed areas it's really not great practice in general IMO. Also the sign looks like it depicts skiers descending slopes at the same time and in general one at a time to safety zones seems to be my practice of choice.

I guess what I'm saying is if I need a sign to tell me to be careful, pictures depicting poor traveling practices does not help matters much.

It's on a 6x6 post 50 feet in from Alpental road on the now snow covered road to the PCT-N parking lot.  As most park at West to access the trailhead, figured this was the most walked by spot.

I think the signs are outstanding and really couldn't be much better.  Or, more to the point, any improvement in the signage would not result in an improvement in statistics.  Overwhelmingly I believe the go vs. no-go decision is made by people when they leave the house, not when they review the signs and conditions at the TH, and is unfortunately not often enough reevaluated on course.

On the other hand, I think more avalanche training does make a difference.  After completing an AIARE L1 cert and really studying the material, practicing transceiver search and digs, I can now appreciate how my ability to actually understand the implications of the signage has evolved.

So the signs should really be the first and last link in the chain of training - first link for people with no avalanche awareness whatsoever (who will hopefully reconsider and/or seek training before the next outing), and the last link for those of us who might otherwise continue to try to convince ourselves to proceed in spite of what our better judgement is telling us.

Other fuel for this discussion:

1) why no NWAC special bulletin?  I was discounting all NWAC forecasts from Thursday forward.  Anyone at the passes knew Avy hazard was 'High'.

^^^ Indeed.  That is a good question.  Perhaps I was not the only one wondering why there was no red (or even black) on that rose Saturday.

1) why no NWAC special bulletin?  I was discounting all NWAC forecasts from Thursday forward.  Anyone at the passes knew Avy hazard was 'High'.

I presume that Alpental was closed mid-week last week. Is that correct? So there was no way to get field reports from the ski patrol, right?

Do you live at the pass, Andy? Can you become a contact person for NWAC when the ski patrol isn't available? Any other ideas for getting more field reports to the folks at NWAC?

I presume that Alpental was closed mid-week last week. Is that correct? So there was no way to get field reports from the ski patrol, right?

Do you live at the pass, Andy? Can you become a contact person for NWAC when the ski patrol isn't available? Any other ideas for getting more field reports to the folks at NWAC?

Hi Lowell, I was at Stevens Fri/Sat and knew things were going bad fast (1-2 inch of prec at 34-38 degrees) and made it to Snoq Sat/Sun to witness how bad Snoq got caught in the convergence (I-90 closed due to spin-outs, no highway plowing, heavy/intense prec at 34 degrees).  What probably got my attention the most was a TAY post that made it clear how bad thing turned ( www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...ex.php?topic=28266.0 ). 

You raise a good point.  We probably assume to much that NWAC knows what we know when we're standing in the snow.  It never occured to me to pass my observations along to NWAC even when I knew Friday evening the NWAC details weren't reflecting the weather pattern coming up Stevens.  What I've recognized about our region's social media is that an NWAC special bulletin would be quickly reflected on radio/tv news.  Anyone can make a difference here by just getting timely information out in the right channels. 

I think it's an excellent suggestion to send in our field observations/concerns to NWAC that we could easily do from our smart phones.  Who on this thread can provide details on what's the best method/format to send NWAC such observations?  And from that, I'd suggest everyone add it to their contact favorite.

I believe Alpental was closed Friday, but patrol was pretty tied into the avy concern on Saturday with control work and closing terrain through the day. Not sure why that didn't get passed along to change NWAC's alert. Not sure how NWAC's spin-down into Spring plays into this. It's an interesting discussion point that perhaps NWAC can better represent and let us know how we can help better with current conditions.

Tragic events, condolences to those affected. After reading through these posts I have found myself with these two comments:

1. I don't necessarily agree with the second-guessing of NWAC's rating for Saturday. I kept a close look on the NWAC site Friday night/Saturday morning, and I didn't see any inconsistencies between the avalanche rating on the NWAC site and the moderate snowfall, high winds, and temperatures reported on the telemetry. We were up commonwealth but stayed in the trees and out of the wind where there was no noticeable slab, and there were many groups that experienced nothing beyond sluff on steeper rollovers. I'm sure on windy faces (like Red) it was significantly worse, but after reviewing the definition of a 'high' day, I'm not sure that Saturday's conditions warrant this. By continually increasing the rating of the day to 'high', you cause many to discount the dangers of 'moderate' and 'considerable' days.

...or maybe it was a 'high' day.

2. I really wish we could have been aware of the Red Mountain incident when it was reported. We were up commonwealth along with many other groups of experienced backcountry skiers that have first responder training, but we didn't learn of the event until returning home. I don't know the nature of the injuries, but the chances of survival would certainly go up if there were 10 more helpers around, at least a few with first responder training. One system that I think is really slick is the tsunami warning system that the coast has where a text is sent to all cell phones pinged by certain towers. If certified people could volunteer for such a system that notified those in the proximity of an incident, I think that would be a really slick way of helping out.