WMC Update 2012

Along the same vein of reasoning...If an incompatibility actually exists.

What areas should be Closed to access for skiers/snowboarders and declared Motorized Access Only?

Remember, I am also a fellow backcountry tourer.

if it's an area where snowmobiles frequent then I don't go there. The area is already closed to me. It would be like fishing in an area where dynamite is permitted.

How or why is that area "Closed to you"?

Because it has tracks in it??

I'm a snowboarder (and sometimes skier)... I find lines to snowboard in all the areas we are discussing here... and ones that have even higher snowmobile traffic....Weather I have skinned in, snowshoed or used my snowmobile to access this terrain.

Are you saying it is an "All or nothing" concept for you?

Md2020 and WMC...

I'll ask this direct question.

In YOUR opinion, should snowmobiles be allowed to run off piste (or road) in the majority of the Non-wilderness area backcountry? (Please take into account that the above presentation states that this will have little impact on the massive amounts of land that you state is open to use by snowmobiles.

Please (and I mean this sincerely)....So that I can better understand.

Md2020, tell me the description that comes to mind when you are talking to other backcountry non-motorized users when one of them asks you for your opinion on backcountry snowmobilers?

WMC... Please answer this as well.

Hi Hurley,

Thanks for the reply.

if you want to trade analogies   i believe my point of view has a limitless number!!

I believe you could come up with more and funnier analogies than me. If you care to do so, post away! I'm always looking for a laugh and additional insight into the motorized point of view.

if it was legal.....as that is what  happens with more population..more people getting out...hittin favorite spots. then that is just the way it goes. stop whining. it happens to us REGULAR folks everyday.

i just have to move on... kinda like gettin up at 4 am, hittin the road, workin my ass off to get to a favorite  pow area ..only to see it ripped up by someone else that got there first.   it sucks but it is the way it goes and i move on.

all you skiers know that it is getting harder and harder to always have first tracks.....same for us snowmobilers
especially when we have a continuosly smaller and smaller are to ride with more riders in this smaller area.

I really do not mind sharing. There are lots of folks out and about in WA, esp. on powder days, but I think there is plenty of room for everybody. But, for me, it is much easier to share with 100 non-motorized users than one snomo. I reject the 'survival of fittest' picture of competition for resources. Instead, I would like to see mutual respect and allowance for other groups.  WMC is simply competing for the resource on the regulatory playing field.
(kinda like gettin up at 4, getting on the computer, busting my ass to write a letter to the forest supervisor only to find that a RMP was already published excluding me from my favorite areas, ..... i would just move on.)  I reject this model, too. I want to forge a reasonable compromise between moderates on both sides that could be offered to the FS with backing from organized groups. I fear this hope is too naive.

We will not agree in detail on which actions constitute reasonable use and management of the forest. I hope that, despite this, we will be able find a compromise that most find tolerable. In particular, I think the motorized user should be given good areas managed for motorized rec. I would like help in identifying these areas. Yammadog and Ruffy have asked a few times what areas skiers would set aside for motorized use. It is a fair question (and one I ducked); I think the answer should come from motorized users. Make a list in order of desirability. Skiers should make a list of places they want non-motorized as well. I think there is sympathy among moderate skiers for your plight and you might be able to get political support from them for the 'protection' of motorized access. You would have my support if I felt the approach was balanced and (most importantly) took good care of the forest.

Best,
Micah

How or why is that area "Closed to you"?

Because it has tracks in it??

I'm a snowboarder (and sometimes skier)... I find lines to snowboard in all the areas we are discussing here... and ones that have even higher snowmobile traffic....Weather I have skinned in, snowshoed or used my snowmobile to access this terrain.

Are you saying it is an "All or nothing" concept for you?

Md2020 and WMC...

(I agree with the above)

I have mentioned something similar before, that if it really is "first tracks" a bc skier is looking for then there is plenty of non-motorized forest out there to find this.  I am not a snowmobiler and have not been on one for at least 20 years, but I do ride dual sport motorcycles and the same people are out there trying to push me out of the forest as well. 

If you are going to go bc in areas that are dual purpose then just learn to share.  There is much more terrain available for the hiker then there is for the motorized folks.

How or why is that area "Closed to you"?

Because it has tracks in it??

I'm a snowboarder (and sometimes skier)... I find lines to snowboard in all the areas we are discussing here... and ones that have even higher snowmobile traffic....Weather I have skinned in, snowshoed or used my snowmobile to access this terrain.

Are you saying it is an "All or nothing" concept for you?

Md2020 and WMC...

I'll ask this direct question.

In YOUR opinion, should snowmobiles be allowed to run off piste (or road) in the majority of the Non-wilderness area backcountry?  (Please take into account that the above presentation states that this will have little impact on the massive amounts of land that you state is open to use by snowmobiles.

WMC has no issue with snowmobiling in general or offroad snowmobiling, we just do not want to be on the same slope as is the opinion here. Please read this thread to get answers so that they do not have to be asked and answered repeatedly.

Thanks everyone for the mutual respect and continuing discussion.