WMC Update 2012

It is interesting that You would exclude WMC from accessing the current Wilderness by snowmobile.


It is the same kind of attitude that gave us the "White Only" drinking fountains that I saw as a kid.

The principals of WMC do not ride snowmobiles off road, they use them as transportation on snow covered roads.

Your characterization of md2020's comments as racist had me laughing out loud.

People have been ski touring in the Cascades, in the remotest areas, since the 1930s and '40s. While equipment has improved, the increased number of non-motorized users in the backcountry is more likely due to increased participation.

As has been stated here before, just today for example, there has been no major closure on the OWNF to motorized use since the early 1980s.

And finally, snow mobile registrations have remained relatively constant for over a decade and sales are declining with dealers going out of business.

WildSky wilderness added recently with 167 square miles. Maybe not ownf, but WMC is promoting outside the ownf. Additionally the area in which they are targeting is one of the more popular riding areas due to the proximity to the puget sounds larger population and the restrictions in the other areas is driving us to this location. Areas such as Suncadia eliminating large areas of riding that once was used by motorcycles and sleds, is gone.

Aaron, WMC (others too)

Do you have any hard/fast verifiable numbers of Skiers accessing the areas discussed here?

Do you have the same info on Snowmobilers #'s accessing the same area?

Please quote source and location.

This is an effort to keep the discussion factual.

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I agree that skiers have been in the backcountry for a long time... But the numbers did not increase as drastically as they have in the last 20 yrs due to the newer more functional equipment, (which BTW...I own both a Voile board/skin setup and Bandit3's with a Naxo/G3 setup)... education, websites and print literature on the topic as well as mainstream movies from the likes of Warren Miller and TGR amongst others.

That same evolution of equipment, information and education IS also occurring in the snowmobile world more recently.

I know it sux that the areas are no longer "exclusively skier"... but there are HUGE amounts of land, directly adjacent to major roads that are "skier-only"... now that may take car-pool shuttles to get to, but don't you think that is worth the effort?

Is this a discussion about "Parity" as WMC puts forth... or a discussion about "We were here first"?
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I laughed out loud as well Aaron, that you found racist implications there in context with this discussion. I expected more from you than that cheap shot.

Allow me to retort.

The exclusive ATTITUDE  is what was put forth... and this ATTITUDE still riddles our society... both here with Backcountry Access issues as well as others. The ATTITUDE being..."that your rights extend beyond the rights of others" as stated in the post above.

Mountainhorse, you compared this issue with Whites Only drinking fountains -- it's not a big leap to make a comparison to racism. As you say, let's keep the discussion factual and respectful.

Thanks.

The principals of WMC do not ride snowmobiles off road, they use them as transportation on snow covered roads.

Your characterization of md2020's comments as racist had me laughing out loud.

the back of the bus was fun on the bumps living in the country as a kid.....

Are those roads groomed? If the proposed area is shut down as suggested, I could see the push to groom different roads for sledding, since the play areas are closed down in the exisiting area. Seems that plenty of dollars are spent directly related to snowmobile funds used for this reason.

A sword cuts on both sides. If you take a look at the north cascades thread, skiers are possibly losing land/access if that proposal goes thru.

Marcus,

I agree that it was a COMPARISON to ATTITUDES that foster racism ... but certainly, in the context presented, can not be misconstrued as a implying racism in a topic where race is not part of the discussion.

The common ATTITUDE in my presentation would be more accurately represented, not in the word that Aaron threw out, but more in these words common to the ATTITUDES presented...  segregation, intolerance, narrow-mindedness when viewing one groups rights vs another. These words are germane to a common thread, which I will stand by.

Which is why I too find it Laughable.

I also am glad that you are keeping this discussion open to different view points..... as we are on the Forums  that I moderate.
www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2304650

I welcome you to participate there as well.

Mountainhorse, you compared this issue with Whites Only drinking fountains -- it's not a big leap to make a comparison to racism.  As you say, let's keep the discussion factual and respectful.

Thanks.