WMC Update 2012

It's interesting that the percentage of the forest you claim to be non-motorized continues to grow with each posting, first it's more than 40%, then it's almost half, then it's half and now it's more than half. I'm sorry you're prohibited from using your snowmobile in the wilderness, that was decided a half century ago. I made it clear in earlier posts, I think snowmobiles should be restricted to designated routes, just like other OHV users. I've never had a problem with snowmobiles on groomed or ungroomed roads, that's where I expect them to be. I don't consider myself elitist any more than you do, everyone has different opinions and ideas on how OUR public lands should be used. I understand where you are coming from with your desire to use snowmobiles in alpine terrain, I just don't agree with it. This is what makes America great, I can have that opinion even though you would try to silence it with pleas about elitism and discrimination, it's a two way street, take a look in the mirror, pot/kettle whichever colloquialism you prefer. In the end it's not up to you or I to decide, only to give input, either by voting or public comment.

Excuse me for the generalization of the overall territory. 40% has been agreed to as wilderness in earlier posts, additional land is designated non-motorized with more having other restrictive designations, so my halfing description seemed to fit.

I'll agree that to each their own as for the acceptable use comment. Yet would you agree that each has a place and that effectively you have your half(generalized again) with wilderness etc and sledders have their half, yet you also have our half? When the comment, and I'm not disagreeable with it, that the 2 uses are incompatible is put out there, what protections do the other half "deserve" as WMC is illuding to? Is the wilderness not that protected terrain?

the developemnt of all our technologies was from the use in extreme situations, 4x4 vehicles, dirt bikes, skins, snowboards etc....where does this extreme performance happen if it's off limits to anyone that may want to go that route? You are not offering to limit your access or availablity to use your equipment to it's fullest ability. I posted earlier the OHV area know as Reiter Pit and the elimnation of half that area. this is the common theme amongst non-motorized advocates. It's one of the few remaining areas on the west side after the other areas have been systematically eliminated.

In the end it's not up to you or I to decide, only to give input, either by voting or public comment.

tyranny of the majority based on an ill perceived notion of conflict? Saving the forests from evil snowmobilers?

It has been stated many times from people on BOTH sides that there is little conflict compared to what the WMC preaches about. Yet this seems to be inconsequential to the theoretical arguments about the different user groups. Many people don't see this as an issue. Many people don't see other users as the opposition. Many people learn how to get along with each other.

Not here, not now, not by these people, it seems.

First let me preface this in that I am also a backcountry snowboarder... I use a splitboard w/skins, snowshoes or a snowmobile for BC access... and ride all over the Pacific NW, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, WYO, MT and British Columbia. I travel with Ski Patrollers, touring groups and other AVID back country enthusiasts.

Also, I have been exposed to WMC ( Wenatchee Mountains Coalition ) in the past and they appear to be a level headed group of people that are passionate about their sport.

The WE part should include the sharing of the current open areas IMO... not excluding one group in preference of another.

As indicated above by WMC ... The massive Wilderness areas ARE available for Ski touring/snowboarding/snowshoeing to the exclusion of motorized vehicles.

Why should the current shared areas be further divided and exclude the snowmbiles?

WMC... What are the main reasons for you to NOT want to Share the current lands we BOTH enjoy and specify them to exclude snowmobiles?

I can see and respect as well as enjoy the need for "peace and quiet" in pursuing a BC ski experience outside of snowmobile co-mingling. That is currently available to us as skiers/snowboarders... we just have to work to get it... and I feel that that "work" is worth it... nothing is the same as a full day skin with packs on... Post-holeing for a good line and dropping some great steep pow lines... I get that. And that is currently available to us in the wilderness areas.

What is WMC's Official position on the the use of Backcountry snowmobiles? Does WMC actively promote awareness and education of the members in the value of Snowmobiles in the backcountry other than for SAR missions?

I would like to participate in an open discussion of the topic... In a non inflammatory way in both directions... It is good to have you here... Lets be as transparent in our motives as possible... both parties.

It would be nice, for a change to ditch the "Us vs. Them" that both groups here seem to be developing and cooperate so that we both can enjoy these wonderful areas TOGETHER!!

WMC.. you also state in your TAY post

today, however, skiers and snowshoers, are increasingly discovering that even if they travel far, they are likely to find themselves competing directly with snowmobiles on mountain slopes, ridges, and alpine bowls, as well as on roads, in meadows, and in forests.

What do you find them "competing" for ... a pristine line down the center of a slope?
Please elaborate.

I've also read your position on compatibility

but because motorized and non-motorized uses are incompatible on the same terrain

Being a Backcountry snowboarder who also travels with Teli and Touring skiers... I do not understand this "incompatibly and competition" position you have presented.

WMC... you also have to entertain this idea if you are going to have a more complete picture of backcountry use:

In the past, Backcountry access to skiers was pretty limited untill the modern Teli, Rondi and Touring skis have come to the fore. Before that, there were very limited numbers of Skiers in the "Pristine backcountry" as well.

Ski touring Technology has advanced, prices have dropped on the gear and it is readily available at most sporting outlets (eg REI, Sportsbarn, Mountain Gear etc). Also instruction clinics for BC ski access and BC ski/snowboard clubs have been growing in numbers as well as numerous BC Touring books and maps for skiers. Sure, Franz Klahmer may have been ski touring in the late sixties... but he would have been pretty alone in the BC.

In the last 6-8 years, BC snowmobile equipment, education, availability and awareness have caught up with the initial wave of ski touring expansion in the backcountry.

I often see the reticence of the ski groups to share what they feel is their "staked claim" in public lands and the bad sentiments towards snowmobilers that they feel are "poaching or intruding" upon.

I have been on plenty of overnight touring outings where some of the others in the group did not know that I am also a snowmobiler... The attitude from many in the group (Not all) was a "We were here first" let them find their own places to ride!" was adamantly voiced. 

It is more work to get to the Wilderness in SOME areas, not so hard in others.

I feel that both groups (I belong to both) of Snomobilers and Skiers/Snowboarders need to recognize the access rights of either one... and SHARE the lands that they both currently enjoy.

So that you might understand You have also proposed a closure to what is already a greatly shrinking snowmobile access-ability of snomobilers in the BC. There is a reason that snowmobilers feel that the Public Lands that they currently enjoy is under siege from groups that keep "inching thier way" into closing down more and more areas to our way of enjoying the backcountry beauty and expansiveness.

New Wilderness areas are being proposed that will exclude motorized access or as the new phraseology states..."mechanized access" which includes mountain bikes. There are also proposals to increase the size of or merge current wilderness areas like the ones in the maps shown above.

I see no language in the proposal that states that these lands will NOT, in the future, be incorporated into the Wilderness areas or further expanded upon... or that this is the ONLY area in the region that will be "non motorized" in the future. I hate to draw on a cliche' ... but "give em an inch and they will take a mile" has held true for much of the access issues in snowmobile areas across the country.

Also, snowmobile registration numbers have grown, but not as much as the population percentage... that number, in relation to pop size has diminished.

Along the same vein of reasoning...If an incompatibility actually exists.

What areas should be Closed to access for skiers/snowboarders and declared Motorized Access Only?

Remember, I am also a fellow backcountry tourer.