WMC Update 2012

Here is the last direct question asked at Snowest that has never been addressed by Ruffy Yamma or snowmobile riders-

So the WMC is calling me out for not answer one of your general questions when the WMC hasn't answered many questions over on snowest? And calling me out for not answering the question in less then 1.5 hrs after the committee posted it?

Consider the large areas with open slopes for snowmobile riding in the Entiat and Chelan Mountains? Why or why not are those areas significant for snowmobile riding? Consider Mt St Helens and Mt Baker, and the Gifford-Pinchot NF- all have huge and significant good snowmobile riding opportunity."

As to Helens and Baker.  Yah, they are both good riding areas.  Though they are about 4 or 5 hours away from the locations we are talking about here. Never been to the Entiat of Chelan mountains.  I think those areas are about 4 or 5 hours away too.  Interesting that the WMC claims to seek areas that are day accessible for non-motorized users, but yet their idea of snowmobile areas is for 8 hr round trip drives?  I guess that is the 'parity' the WMC desires.

Some commented that WMC should reach out to snowmobile riders, and that has been done done exactly as WMC has reached out to skiers and hikers, on the various Forums.

I thought that's what the point was, to say you did it, to say you "engaged the opposition" while never even listening to anyone elses point, nor answering questions,  nor engaging in a workable solution.  It wasn't a discussion, it was a justification.

Is there a problem with point-counterpoint?

The purpose is to stimulate discussion, similar to your and Yamma's cross posts to various Forums. WMC stated at Snowest that WMC believes that these threads are watched by decision-makers including USFS, and commented that folks there should speak as if they were speaking to USFS.

Here is the last direct question asked at Snowest that has never been addressed by Ruffy Yamma or snowmobile riders-

"So, here it is asked of snowmobile riders: If sooner or later USFS divides up non-Wilderness Forest between snowmobiles and non-motorized use what are your ideas and suggestions?

Consider the large areas with open slopes for snowmobile riding in the Entiat and Chelan Mountains? Why or why not are those areas significant for snowmobile riding? Consider Mt St Helens and Mt Baker, and the Gifford-Pinchot NF- all have huge and significant good snowmobile riding opportunity."

Some commented that WMC should reach out to snowmobile riders, and that has been done done exactly as WMC has reached out to skiers and hikers, on the various Forums.

CC is fine if it's in context and as well not the extreme of the responses...you're only fishing on SW for that type of response from the less sympathetic to your position.

The Entiat and Chelan MTNs are too far for a day trip for me and lots of seattle area riders, thus the large number of users in the corridor over i90 and around to us2. As for the Baker riding area which I do visit each spring 4-6 times or less(also a long haul) is only a small portion of the mountain most is non-motorized and wilderness.


Now how about you answer the direct question?

Where do you forsee legal off road snowmobiling with similar terrain to what you are proposing closed? Do you acknowledge that you have available to you although some may be less desirable all areas of the forest totalling 100%?

And from your perspective where would that location [of designated snowmobiling area containing high-quality, open alpine terrain] be?

This I think is the $1M question which you have posed here several times and to which you have received no answer. I thought about trying to compile a list, but it is a big task, and my knowledge is insufficient. I envision perhaps 10 areas of significant size distributed through the mountainous regions of WA. Hopefully at least one along each of I-90 and US 2. I think it would be great if snowmobilers would submit a list (you know what areas have the most value from your perspective). For starters, I would probably look at areas with heavy snomo use now.

Again, it seems that non-motorized areas were reviewed in the late 90's which would have in it's consideration the modern capability of sleds, I think what has changed is the ability of the riders. Much like ski and snow board recreationalist taking much more difficult lines in the most recent years.

This is very interesting and something I had not considered before.

This I think is the $1M question which you have posed here several times and to which you have received no answer. I thought about trying to compile a list, but it is a big task, and my knowledge is insufficient. I envision perhaps 10 areas of significant size distributed through the mountainous regions of WA. Hopefully at least one along each of I-90 and US 2. I think it would be great if snowmobilers would submit a list (you know what areas have the most value from your perspective). For starters, I would probably look at areas with heavy snomo use now.

This is very interesting and something I had not considered before.

Well, that's why I'm here. This is one of those areas and the populus of the puget sound puts most folks in the I90 corridor. It's easy to say, go to baker or other high reward areas like Whistler but the fact is a day trip puts most people in this region of proposed closure. there's really not as many areas that sled can truely go that doesn't bump in to wildrness or some other off limits boundary or terrain obstruction particularly with this type of terrain.

Just like yourself, you don't want to be in the resorts with 1000 other folks pounding out every inch of slope, we search for the same untouched pow without all the rookies and inconsiderate yahoos..not to mention when we do shut off the sled it's in areas that provide a sweet view.

No doubt we(sledders) do have limitations in terrain and territory and this is the challenge with the WMC position of not recognizing the EXISTING opportunities of 100% of the forest including wilderness and non-motorized areas to the non-motorized folks.

from cookie

"Physical fitness and skill are important barriers to entry if we're talking about deboning a 1000 metre alpine line by hand. Does anyone here really believe that an $8000 sled turns your average poke into a mountaineer? Exactly how much mountain sense does that $8000 buy? The equivalence is as follows: 8000 money dollars = -8000 mountain sense dollars.

Do you really want to share the slope with morons riding $8000 avalanche triggering machines? Do you really think they care if they have to ride above you ... when they don't even care if they kill their own friends?"

wow !

revver.com/video/310519/a-dozen-more-turns/

you may be suprised "cookie" that you or I will be just as sweaty and sore at the end of the day gettin to the same stash as a backcountry snowmobiler. or skiier...but hey i guess when the doc s say the best in shape of any athlete is the motocross racers...who whoulda thunk it? or understand.

experiance?

been skiin since i was 3.