WMC Update 2012

I have mentioned something similar before, that if it really is "first tracks" a bc skier is looking for then there is plenty of non-motorized forest out there to find this.  I am not a snowmobiler and have not been on one for at least 20 years, but I do ride dual sport motorcycles and the same people are out there trying to push me out of the forest as well. 

If you are going to go bc in areas that are dual purpose then just learn to share.  There is much more terrain available for the hiker then there is for the motorized folks.

Please read this thread in regard to many of the points, already discussed by various folks here.

Thanks.

How or why is that area "Closed to you"?

Because it has tracks in it?

No, it's the same reason I don't go hiking on trails that allow dirt bikes.

Are you saying it is an "All or nothing" concept for you?

Pretty much. I can handle the same parking lot, but after that I don't want to see you guys.

In YOUR opinion, should snowmobiles be allowed to run off piste (or road) in the majority of the Non-wilderness area backcountry?  (Please take into account that the above presentation states that this will have little impact on the massive amounts of land that you state is open to use by snowmobiles.

Yes, clearcuts. Motors generally don't belong in the alpine.

Hi Hurley,

Thanks for the reply.

I believe you could come up with more and funnier analogies than me. If you care to do so, post away! I'm always looking for a laugh and additional insight into the motorized point of view.

I really do not mind sharing. There are lots of folks out and about in WA, esp. on powder days, but I think there is plenty of room for everybody. But, for me, it is much easier to share with 100 non-motorized users than one snomo. I reject the 'survival of fittest' picture of competition for resources. Instead, I would like to see mutual respect and allowance for other groups.  WMC is simply competing for the resource on the regulatory playing field.
(kinda like gettin up at 4, getting on the computer, busting my ass to write a letter to the forest supervisor only to find that a RMP was already published excluding me from my favorite areas, ..... i would just move on.)  I reject this model, too. I want to forge a reasonable compromise between moderates on both sides that could be offered to the FS with backing from organized groups. I fear this hope is too naive.

We will not agree in detail on which actions constitute reasonable use and management of the forest. I hope that, despite this, we will be able find a compromise that most find tolerable. In particular, I think the motorized user should be given good areas managed for motorized rec. I would like help in identifying these areas. Yammadog and Ruffy have asked a few times what areas skiers would set aside for motorized use. It is a fair question (and one I ducked); I think the answer should come from motorized users. Make a list in order of desirability. Skiers should make a list of places they want non-motorized as well. I think there is sympathy among moderate skiers for your plight and you might be able to get political support from them for the 'protection' of motorized access. You would have my support if I felt the approach was balanced and (most importantly) took good care of the forest.

Best,
Micah

Don't encourage Hurly ....it's a dark tunnel that can't be escaped...much like a black hole, but it goes in one ear and out the other...;>)...

With regard to identifying "conflict free" areas, the proposal WMC has is too far reaching given the terrain and location. Since the sledders did not see a conflict I think it's on the shoulders of the folks creating the conflict to answer the question of their vision. It has been stated by WMC that he could be at the wilderness boundary in 1/2hour, which theoretically has no machines encroaching(this is another topic and needs to be addressed and we are discussing the subject now), and if the proposal was thought out resonably it shouldn't be too hard to answer.

WMC has no issue with snowmobiling in general or offroad snowmobiling, we just do not want to be on the same slope as is the opinion here. Please read this thread to get answers so that they do not have to be asked and answered repeatedly.

Thanks everyone for the mutual respect and continuing discussion.

Still looking for answers to a couple of them..

...If an incompatibility actually exists.

Personally, I find it hard to imagine anything that lowers the value of skiing area more than snowmobile use. This is a subjective, emotional statement, but it is true for me. I find snowmobiles are obnoxious. They are antithetical to MY vision of a tranquil backcountry. I share skiing locales with sledders, b/c I realize they also have a right to recreate. I am sure they do not understand my feelings just as I can not understand theirs. I have never suspected a snowmobiler of having any desire to take anything away from me, yet I feel they are efficient at destroying exactly what I am looking for.

A primary frustration I find when discussing motorized access with snowmobile users is the personalization of the arguments. If I want to restrict snowmobile usage I am accused of being selfish despite the fact that I welcome all but the most obnoxious forms of travel.

They say, "why can't we share?"

I say, "why can't you be more considerate of those around you?"

In reality I believe I am willing to share, and they believe they are being considerate. But I do not believe they are being considerate, and they do not believe I am willing to share. Therein lies the incompatibility of uses.

Well said.

An honest question...

Although I have not been present at any of the meetings, I have heard from others that have (in regards to the proposed closures)... The proposing "team" was not at all amenable to any compromise or adjustment of the lands proposed to be created/expanded as Non-Motorized access areas.

I'd like to hear some more opinions on this position.