WMC Update 2012

Thanks for that, it was an attempt. This is a tough discussion. Our goal other than getting support and accomplishing our proposal is to try to have a dialog with all users, supporters or opponents. We do not expect common ground with snowmobile riders, but if we keep trying perhaps common ground could be found?

With your proposal as it sits, I doubt you find much common ground. If you are going to make any headway you'll need to offer something other than just simply closure of most all the prime area as you've discussed previously. You'll need to incorporate information and the consideration of the sledders for quality riding area.

Like I said earlier, I'm only a single rider and probably don't fit the majority.

Don't worry WMC.. we got some new mods over there that are a little proactive these days. Maybe the mods just think us snowmobilers are a sensitive bunch.

The Snowest Moderator put the thread back up-

www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=218431

If anyone goes over to that Forum, no name-calling, and remember to respect other users.

Thank you.

Some discussion over at Snowest with the snowmobile folks-

"Originally Posted by hurleyboarder21 
This can only be described as a selfish elitist minded screw everyone else landgrab.

THAT is all it is.

Go to tay and read all of wmc posts. and the ones on here also.

it is all about wmc pow stash private skiing club.

i feel sorry for the forest service to have to be burdened with the actions of such a misguided selfish effort to lock out the general public for the benefit of a "special" few. total bs

like the forest service has any extra resources as it is.

regards
hurly



WMC comment:

Thanks for the comment. You unquestionably defend your use as we do our own. There may be a similar counterpoint view.

Folks who do not ride snowmobiles along the Teanaway/ Ingalls divide may very well see an "elitist minded screw everyone else landgrab." and "actions of such a misguided selfish effort to lock out the general public for the benefit of a "special" few. total bs." USFS never planned and never designated that area for snowmobile recreation. Even though Federal Law requires and USFS asks for snowmobiles to stay out of the Wilderness there, in winter when we ski to those summits the highest concentration of snowmobiles that we see many times are over the Wilderness Boundary. We looked over at seven snowmobiles in the Wilderness from Earl Peak last March. We have reported similar observations for several years.

Another view held by many would ask is it more elitist to ride a $10k snowmobile to the Wilderness Boundary and beyond, elitist compared to skiers or snowshoe hikers walking and sweating for hours using a few hundred dollars worth of gear? One snowmobile may use the entire slope in an hour or two, how many hikers campers and skiers could use the same area if it were quiet and untracked? More than snowmobile riders and they could have peace and privacy even with a large crowd of skiers, hikers, or campers! Skiers and snowshoe and overnight travelers often travel that far in a day, but would not go there now in winter with all of the snowmobile traffic.

The Teanaway is a popular destination for skitouring, after the snowmobiles are not around anymore. Here is one of several recent TRs-

www.turns-all-year.com/skiing...?topic=16810.0

Here is the OP answer on that TR when asked, "See any snowmobilers?"

"None actively, probably because their approach via King Creek/Shaser Creek (gated roads) has long since melted out. But we could still could see many older snowmobile tracks throughout all the open slopes this deep in the wilderness. See photos below. There is a bright red wilderness boundary sign at the Falls Creek/Negro Creek divide with tracks going past it . I will also note that there were many tracks that also turned around at the divide and stayed in legal terrain. My synopsis is most stayed legal but those who entered the wilderness new they were doing so, new exactly which terrain in the wilderness they sought, and purposedly disregarded the law with intent.
Photo 1: old tracks lower right of skier on NE gully Navaho.
Photos 2 and 3: tracks in basin, east slope Navaho, below Falls divide and climbing toward saddle"

Thanks for the discussion.
Last edited by WMC; 06-05-2010 at 06:27 PM."

So, this is the discussion you were after?

I guess the point of going over there was to try and get some comments to use in your cause.

Glad that a good faith effort was put forth on your behalf....

And people wonder why snowmobilers are hesitant to get involved in any discussion..

Nice to see this was posted over at NWHikers as well.

So, this is the discussion you were after?

I guess the point of going over there was to try and get some comments to use in your cause.

Glad that a good faith effort was put forth on your behalf....

And people wonder why snowmobilers are hesitant to get involved in any discussion..

Is there a problem with point-counterpoint?

The purpose is to stimulate discussion, similar to your and Yamma's cross posts to various Forums. WMC stated at Snowest that WMC believes that these threads are watched by decision-makers including USFS, and commented that folks there should speak as if they were speaking to USFS.

Here is the last direct question asked at Snowest that has never been addressed by Ruffy Yamma or snowmobile riders-

"So, here it is asked of snowmobile riders: If sooner or later USFS divides up non-Wilderness Forest between snowmobiles and non-motorized use what are your ideas and suggestions?

Consider the large areas with open slopes for snowmobile riding in the Entiat and Chelan Mountains? Why or why not are those areas significant for snowmobile riding? Consider Mt St Helens and Mt Baker, and the Gifford-Pinchot NF- all have huge and significant good snowmobile riding opportunity."

Some commented that WMC should reach out to snowmobile riders, and that has been done done exactly as WMC has reached out to skiers and hikers, on the various Forums.