TR Replies
Excellent work. Many have looked but few have skied.
We got to the base of the summit couloir in slide-y conditions once, but it was socked in and we never got the views.
What were the snow and trail conditions like between Lena Lake and Lena forks? Several winters ago the trail was badly washed out.
We got to the base of the summit couloir in slide-y conditions once, but it was socked in and we never got the views.
What were the snow and trail conditions like between Lena Lake and Lena forks? Several winters ago the trail was badly washed out.
Great pics and TR. Thanks for sharing your suffer fest; glad you survived it. That's not an easy trip to complete under ideal conditions with plenty of daylight! Way to get after it!
Nice work, guys! We debated between the Heather Lake Couloir and McClellan Butte's N Couloir on Saturday, and opted for McClellan. In retrospect, that was a poor choice, as the freezing rain event turned out to be poorly buried there, and we encountered what could charitably called "mixed" conditions that led to some bruised egos, broken gear, and 1000 ft of front point downclimbing. Glad to see you found better snow!
author=lefty72 link=topic=37687.msg153057#msg153057 date=1485749517]
The best martinis have a thin layer of ice on top and 3 olives, preferably with a garlic clove or stuffed with cheese.
This is the absolute truth. Possibly the only absolute truth stated in this thread.
The best martinis have a thin layer of ice on top and 3 olives, preferably with a garlic clove or stuffed with cheese.
Fun video- looks like it was a great day out!
the greatest 'seattle skin track' starts just past LoT4.
author=freeski link=topic=37687.msg153009#msg153009 date=1485629320]
I would say that anyone dropping that line from the top still has the responsibility to ensure that they are not placing anyone below them at risk of harm.
I'm sure that you would not risk someone's life just because the party below is not acting according to best practice safety protocols.
why don't you ask the local land management to close that line...
author=alecapone link=topic=37687.msg153033#msg153033 date=1485708143]
Just trying to make sure this hits every page.
#7 don't expose yourself to the actions of others.
People just add another level of unpredictability. I try not to put myself in them situations in most cases in life. Work, driving BC skiing.
Always a calculated risk...just like rock climbing/alpinism..
author=Scotsman link=topic=37687.msg152869#msg152869 date=1485398551]
The thought process I try and abide by when setting a skin track is based upon the "Best Practices" protocol that we use at work to avoid killing people when engaged in complex construction work.
My personal Best Practices for skin track setting is as follows.
#1 Set the skin track in the safest place possible because I feel vulnerable with skins on, toes locked out...
bc etiquette enforcers are badly needed on the I-90 corridor.
author=~Link~ link=topic=37687.msg153019#msg153019 date=1485659102]
Well said. I've been cringing far too often lately, watching the bc explode with inexperienced folks, evident by such unsafe climbing routes/selection, and/or naive descents.
I read a thread very recently from that same area that erupted into an argument about bc etiquette. I think etiquette and safety just about work hand-in-hand in the bc, for sure. I really appreciate t...
Yup. Exactly what we found last Sunday at the same aspects and elevations. Hope there's fresh when I get back Thursday from Colorado wind pressed chalk and 4" powder in wind protected glades. Thanks for the conditions update.
Your guess is as good as mine, TM. I'm not sure I'd even call it a parking lot but there's room for 3 cars and next to it another, smaller one. About 0.2 miles before summer Switchback trailhead, south side of the road. N
author=freeski link=topic=37687.msg152879#msg152879 date=1485404070]
Well stated. This was the mountainering ethos when i started climbing up to ski down.
I read a lot of climbing stories and those early climbers had no problems with talking about their mistakes or the mistakes of fellow climbers.
btw, the use of 'shame' is considered to a morally exceptable practice to engage in when used to try to correct behavior that has t...
:) Looks great. Thinking of heading to Kendall tomorrow. Is that Chair peak?
This is a very good discussion on the crowding issue. A couple of heuristics are operating very strongly here: scarcity, and the idea that if others are doing it, it must be safe (don't recall the official term for the latter).
Increased bc crowding in popular or easy to reach areas is here to stay. So IMO it adds another important consideration - along with everything else (weather, snowpack, temperature, precip, winds, terrain selection, etc.) which sho...
Increased bc crowding in popular or easy to reach areas is here to stay. So IMO it adds another important consideration - along with everything else (weather, snowpack, temperature, precip, winds, terrain selection, etc.) which sho...
author=Skier of the Hood link=topic=37687.msg152951#msg152951 date=1485496193]
The immediate terrain around Table is small when compared to Connaught at Rogers Pass. As anyone who has visited recently can tell you shits wild and it is only a matter of time until Strathcona repeats itself however this time the avalanche will be human triggered. Homies dropping cornices into STS have a hard time missing when the congo line going up Connaught is 150 strong, and y...
Nice report.
Will this parking be plowed on a regular basis, is it an afterthought when it hasn't snowed recently, or was it a freebee we can't count on?
author=niko link=topic=37735.msg152993#msg152993 date=1485573406]
the new Switchback parking area
Will this parking be plowed on a regular basis, is it an afterthought when it hasn't snowed recently, or was it a freebee we can't count on?
Could be useful.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?dg=feature&hl=en&oe=UTF8&msa=0&ie=UTF8&mid=1peuLVZJ-OUfJIGRtuA2nI3vR7oc&ll=47.453513801072084%2C-121.42609123272706&z=14
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?dg=feature&hl=en&oe=UTF8&msa=0&ie=UTF8&mid=1peuLVZJ-OUfJIGRtuA2nI3vR7oc&ll=47.453513801072084%2C-121.42609123272706&z=14
Someone went yesterday and liked it lots. Stay northeast and off anything southfacing. The guy yesterday said he went to 5200' and found 6-8" of good snow. Another guy on Tuesday found unpredictable crust under good snow and went elsewhere.
I hope you see the possible wind transport issues for the clues...pits on undicator slopes that often are tucked under cornices while hucking said cornices and not be a
ble to see folks hidden below rolls who mtight be transitioning out. When seeing crazy tracks and jumps...that screams sidecountrt to me.....farther furth@er....
ble to see folks hidden below rolls who mtight be transitioning out. When seeing crazy tracks and jumps...that screams sidecountrt to me.....farther furth@er....
author=Scotsman link=topic=37687.msg152869#msg152869 date=1485398551]
My personal Best Practices for skin track setting is as follows.
#1 Set the skin track in the safest place possible because I feel vulnerable with skins on, toes locked out and anchors on my feet. Even if this means going the long way around to my desired point of entry.
#2 Avoid a close stacked Z track wherever possible or keep them to a minimum. Spacing is important on a skin tr...
I believe the cross-over point is somewhere about here:
http://www.hillmap.com/m/ag1zfmhpbGxtYXAtaGRychULEghTYXZlZE1hcBiAgIDIhtOMCAw
You can also cross over to Thunder basin and exit via the Slot exit gully.
http://www.hillmap.com/m/ag1zfmhpbGxtYXAtaGRychULEghTYXZlZE1hcBiAgIDIhtOMCAw
You can also cross over to Thunder basin and exit via the Slot exit gully.
It's impossible to change some bad snow behavior. Once I suggested some snowshoers away from the steeper slopes climbers left of Pan Face in poor avy conditions - they said they would just tuck and roll.
Personally - I would not put in that track because it seems in a bad place, there are safer and more aesthetic approaches, and it acts as magnet for other skiers. But - that's me. I agree with the idea of ski community safety - but this tread can go on a long time with no...
Personally - I would not put in that track because it seems in a bad place, there are safer and more aesthetic approaches, and it acts as magnet for other skiers. But - that's me. I agree with the idea of ski community safety - but this tread can go on a long time with no...
author=hop link=topic=37687.msg152955#msg152955 date=1485499558]
You might wish you were somewhere else, but you're not going anywhere if you're stuck on that skintrack heading up when someone or something happens and the slope rips on you and your party of nine.
So I guess you're with Good2Go and Gregg_C and are ok with your fate if that happens. Better hope your assessments are 100% spot on, including the more complex start zones...
author=saltydog link=topic=37687.msg152954#msg152954 date=1485498687]
that.s the great thing about it... no rules. only your own rules. you can chose not to be there if it looks like trouble....
You might wish you were somewhere else, but you're not going anywhere if you're stuck on that skintrack heading up when someone or something happens and the slope rips on you and your party of nine.
So I guess you&#...
that.s the great thing about it... no rules. only your own rules. you can chose not to be there if it looks like trouble....
author=Good2Go link=topic=37687.msg152933#msg152933 date=1485483665]
Ha! You keep missing MY point: It's not "lucky" if you made the correct stability/safety assessment. And, if you accurately determine it's stable, then you do not need to apply additional avy mitigation measures. Why is that so hard to understand? If it's stable, it doesn't matter if people ski in on you. Just like the ski area. You keep suggesting it wasn�...
I'm too cheap to buy the Volkenmeister book, but I'm guessing he's trying to have you ski back south into the the Alpental valley; A similar route to the summer trail? I'm sure someone here knows how to do it.
My limited experience on the north sides of East-West ridges in the Snotqualime area is, that they are steep and complex on the north sides and often puckeringly difficult to get through unless you know the way.
I tend to scout stuff in summer if I want to nai...
My limited experience on the north sides of East-West ridges in the Snotqualime area is, that they are steep and complex on the north sides and often puckeringly difficult to get through unless you know the way.
I tend to scout stuff in summer if I want to nai...
The immediate terrain around Table is small when compared to Connaught at Rogers Pass. As anyone who has visited recently can tell you shits wild and it is only a matter of time until Strathcona repeats itself however this time the avalanche will be human triggered. Homies dropping cornices into STS have a hard time missing when the congo line going up Connaught is 150 strong, and you have the uninitiated trying to boot up or lap the fan. Actions in crowded areas have consequences. Is it the hom...
author=Gregg_C link=topic=37687.msg152941#msg152941 date=1485490095]
After skiing in the Baker backcountry for four decades I notice an interesting trend. Every 5-7 years a new group of skiers come along and rename all the runs and act as if they were the first ones to access Table Mountain. All it would take is a trip into the Heather Meadows lodge to view the photos from the 1930's to show skiers ripping up the north side of Table to change their opin...
It was a blast. The snow was kinda weird. Sugary and soft. It was really cold up there. That kept it soft. We could have had some epic turns down from the saddle if we didn't bother to traverse high.
The other higher risk choice the OP made I observed in their video was the choice to basically ski together on the decent. If the slope had failed -- they would have both been caught up.
Seems like both the up track choice or the choice to ski together might reflect ignorance or a high degree of confidence in the stability of the snowpack.
Since the OP hasn't responded to this thread -- perhaps they haven't checked back or they know that there isn't muc...
Seems like both the up track choice or the choice to ski together might reflect ignorance or a high degree of confidence in the stability of the snowpack.
Since the OP hasn't responded to this thread -- perhaps they haven't checked back or they know that there isn't muc...
We should start a pool prior to the season giving the over/under on the days before the following topics are discussed in multiple page threads:
1) Snowshoeing in the skin track
2) High risk tolerance vs. ignorance
3) The proper way to access/ski the most popular regions
4) Don't out my "secret" stash
These topics will continue to be discussed year after year. This will never change. I am certain. Spending some time contemplating as to why t...
1) Snowshoeing in the skin track
2) High risk tolerance vs. ignorance
3) The proper way to access/ski the most popular regions
4) Don't out my "secret" stash
These topics will continue to be discussed year after year. This will never change. I am certain. Spending some time contemplating as to why t...
:D
author=Gregg_C link=topic=37687.msg152941#msg152941 date=1485490095]
After skiing in the Baker backcountry for four decades I notice an interesting trend. Every 5-7 years a new group of skiers come along and rename all the runs and act as if they were the first ones to access Table Mountain. All it would take is a trip into the Heather Meadows lodge to view the photos from the 1930's to show skiers ripping up the north side of Table to change their op...
After skiing in the Baker backcountry for four decades I notice an interesting trend. Every 5-7 years a new group of skiers come along and rename all the runs and act as if they were the first ones to access Table Mountain. All it would take is a trip into the Heather Meadows lodge to view the photos from the 1930's to show skiers ripping up the north side of Table to change their opinion. I was out on the day in question and saw the up track and joked about the coming TAY...
author=Good2Go link=topic=37687.msg152935#msg152935 date=1485484461]
Saying things like "people getting away with stupid choices" is hardly being respectful IMO. And, this is not a platform for broad avy education. It's somebody's TR. The OP wanted to share their joyful (and by all accounts totally safe) experience, and instead they got a stern talking to by Officer Hop. I doubt we'll be seeing any more TRs from Pierce on h...
author=T. Eastman link=topic=37687.msg152931#msg152931 date=1485483216]
Hop,
Most of the big Alpine routes were skied in summer or early-fall conditions where there was no issue with winter snowpack. The primary reason to climb the routes was assess problems with ice and rock.
Exactly. Which is another reason why the "climb before you ski" mentality doesn't really apply to this area in m...
author=natefred link=topic=37687.msg152929#msg152929 date=1485480934]
Another point I think Good2Go is missing (and that is probably contributing to his irritation) is that it's not about judging this group's decision making or the outcome on a particular day, it's about what is likely to happen if people continue the habit. If one, two, or a bunch of people do get buried on a skin track there some day, EVERYONE (well, I can't really speak...
author=hop link=topic=37687.msg152923#msg152923 date=1485479062]
You repeatedly keep missing my point. It's never been about getting more people to enjoy that slope as you seem to think. It's about minimizing your exposure while in/around avy terrain. I can't say that any clearer; I don't know why it's so hard for you to understand.
Also, successful outcomes don't justify bad decisions. In your case they seem to re...
Hop,
Most of the big Alpine routes were skied in summer or early-fall conditions where there was no issue with winter snowpack. The primary reason to climb the routes was assess problems with ice and rock.
Most of the big Alpine routes were skied in summer or early-fall conditions where there was no issue with winter snowpack. The primary reason to climb the routes was assess problems with ice and rock.
author=David_Lowry link=topic=37687.msg152928#msg152928 date=1485480626]
Thanks for the correction. "always climb the couloir" does not mean always, it depends on whether it is extreme. Didn't mean to imply the terrain is similar. It does seem odd to me that you can assess slope A by studying slope B. I am only trying to learn here, and the quote I posted has had me confused about this topic for a long time.
When I...
Another point I think Good2Go is missing (and that is probably contributing to his irritation) is that it's not about judging this group's decision making or the outcome on a particular day, it's about what is likely to happen if people continue the habit. If one, two, or a bunch of people do get buried on a skin track there some day, EVERYONE (well, I can't really speak for everyone I guess) is going to say how stupid, tragic, and easily avoidable it was.
For one...
For one...
Thanks for the correction. "always climb the couloir" does not mean always, it depends on whether it is extreme. Didn't mean to imply the terrain is similar. It does seem odd to me that you can assess slope A by studying slope B. I am only trying to learn here, and the quote I posted has had me confused about this topic for a long time.
Some interesting wind-affected snow on your traverse there, and cool ice crystals in the air with your tailwind
author=Good2Go link=topic=37687.msg152917#msg152917 date=1485472893]
I first bought a snomo 11 years ago and had a lot of fun learning to ride it. I went to most of the snomo version of ski areas in WA to learn, and found it striking that the snomo community has a much lower perception of risk in the WA snowpack. They cover way more ground than skiers typically do, often hitting every aspect and elevation within a large area. I came to realize that the skiing...
Love the video man. Thanks very much for the Hood report. I'm hoping to head that way soon.