TR Replies
When I rockclimb, I'm scared out of my mind and then I fall. Wham! I stop. The rope comes taunt. I get back on the rock and try again.
The same could go for skiing. One of my worst fears used to be making that one crux turn, and my cable snaps or I slip...maybe trip ??? and fall teacup over tea-kettle all of the way down over cliffs and glaciers. The rope didn't come taunt and I didn't learn (to check your damn gear gaper). There isn't no getting back up and trying again.
H...
The same could go for skiing. One of my worst fears used to be making that one crux turn, and my cable snaps or I slip...maybe trip ??? and fall teacup over tea-kettle all of the way down over cliffs and glaciers. The rope didn't come taunt and I didn't learn (to check your damn gear gaper). There isn't no getting back up and trying again.
H...
Great conversation here, hooray for TAY! Merci beaucoup, Charles.
So I'll clarify even further, and then I'll leave this alone. Phil, you used a rope to enter and ski-cut the couloir. I see no problem with this. There is definitely nothing wrong with using a rope for abatement of avalanche risks. You also used the rope at the top and then skied the whole thing continuously after that, if I remember correctly. That's precisely how I would use a ro...
So I'll clarify even further, and then I'll leave this alone. Phil, you used a rope to enter and ski-cut the couloir. I see no problem with this. There is definitely nothing wrong with using a rope for abatement of avalanche risks. You also used the rope at the top and then skied the whole thing continuously after that, if I remember correctly. That's precisely how I would use a ro...
Yes. Darren had pity on his daughter and carried her skis from the false summit to the top.
To me, last Friday is what summer Randonee is all about.
To me, last Friday is what summer Randonee is all about.
Great comments from everybody. I really appreciate hearing all the different points of view.
Sky, you said that you ascribe no further achievement to a skier who completes a descent on skis while on belay than to one who downclimbs on foot. You said: "I won't be impressed by what you did with your skis while you were using the rope."
As justification for this view, you mentioned aesthetics and continuity of movement, which to me are subjective matters. B...
Sky, you said that you ascribe no further achievement to a skier who completes a descent on skis while on belay than to one who downclimbs on foot. You said: "I won't be impressed by what you did with your skis while you were using the rope."
As justification for this view, you mentioned aesthetics and continuity of movement, which to me are subjective matters. B...
Kam - That "stash" looks a lot like one we did this last winter...
ours was more remote though; no double yellow line on the highway below. I think I'd best refrain from bugging you about the location of yours though, I'd be concerned about the exposure (i.e. the risk of falling into oncoming traffic).
Got a few shots up to give y'all some additional flavor from Sourdough III...
Here's:
ours was more remote though; no double yellow line on the highway below. I think I'd best refrain from bugging you about the location of yours though, I'd be concerned about the exposure (i.e. the risk of falling into oncoming traffic).
Got a few shots up to give y'all some additional flavor from Sourdough III...
Here's:
You protect climbs with a rope. Nothing is taken away from an ascent because you didn't solo it. Roped climbing is the norm. So it doesn't seem too much different to do the same for ski descents. It's just protection in the event of a fall, so that fall doesn't have critical consequences.
Maybe someday this will become the norm for more of the 'extreme' ski descents.
I'm not for or against belayed skiing. It is still skiing afterall and you can link tur...
Maybe someday this will become the norm for more of the 'extreme' ski descents.
I'm not for or against belayed skiing. It is still skiing afterall and you can link tur...
You guys are right. I changed my mind. Me and my rope are going to go ski the North Face of Triumph.
I think it would be fairly impossible to actually ski on belay. Unless you have the Perfect Belayer.
Speaking of this, the other day I ended up at the Exum Guides Frequently Asked Question page for skiing the Grand Teton. The FAQ is pretty interesting. Here's an excerpt claiming you'll not notice skiing on belay:
How steep is it? You'll never be skiing anything steeper than 40-45° without a roped belay. Even i...
Phil, your entire descent is now null and void. I'm quite sympathetic.
;) ;D
;) ;D
I think it would be fairly impossible to actually ski on belay. Unless you have the Perfect Belayer.
I skied on belay for several turns on a route this spring, and it seemed to work (couple of hard jerks here and there :) ).
I did so to get a feel for the snow stability in a location an avy would have been deadly... does that take away from descent style in your opinion Sky?
I try to make sure that all of my ski partners wish I was skiing roped at least once on every trip. I think it serves as a good counterexample.
Oh yeah I forgot about roped ski cutting. I think that falls under the necessary safety category. Ok wait I just watched the video, is that ski cutting, or just non-commital steep-skiing?
They have the skills to just crank it obviously, or do a long cut off to the right. I guess it just felt natural after rapp...
Oh yeah I forgot about roped ski cutting. I think that falls under the necessary safety category. Ok wait I just watched the video, is that ski cutting, or just non-commital steep-skiing?
They have the skills to just crank it obviously, or do a long cut off to the right. I guess it just felt natural after rapp...
It's quite possible to ski in a fashion similar to 'normal' skiing while belayed.
Check out this video of a FD on the Pfeifferhorn in Utah: link. The skiers decided to belay due to suspected snow instabilities.
Personally, I respect a decent with belayed skiing more than the same descent with a rappel or downclimb at the section of difficulty. Obviously, this differs from Sky's opinions. I hope I can live with that.
Check out this video of a FD on the Pfeifferhorn in Utah: link. The skiers decided to belay due to suspected snow instabilities.
Personally, I respect a decent with belayed skiing more than the same descent with a rappel or downclimb at the section of difficulty. Obviously, this differs from Sky's opinions. I hope I can live with that.
All right you silly snowboarder, go here and look under How steep is it?...
I won't cite examples of well-known people practicing such techniques on pioneering descents because this isn't about taking pot shots at anyone. I'm just preaching the gospel of ski mountaineering style according to skykilo.
I won't cite examples of well-known people practicing such techniques on pioneering descents because this isn't about taking pot shots at anyone. I'm just preaching the gospel of ski mountaineering style according to skykilo.
I think it would be fairly impossible to actually ski on belay. Unless you have the Perfect Belayer. But then again a fair amount of notreallyskiing happens in the mountains even without the influence of a rope...
I've downclimbed where "skiing" on a rope would have been possible, to be honest it would have felt pretty silly to bust out the rope. For instance I think it would have been silly for the others on this trip to have rope-skied off the t...
I've downclimbed where "skiing" on a rope would have been possible, to be honest it would have felt pretty silly to bust out the rope. For instance I think it would have been silly for the others on this trip to have rope-skied off the t...
A bit of clarification seems to be in order. I respect people for whatever level of risk they assume; that's a highly personal choice. What I will continue to call silly is the use of ropework for the sake of keeping clicked into the skis. Lowell, I've read and respected your opinions about downclimbing when the risk associated with skiing a given slope is too high. So please don't think that's an approach I'm trying to discredit.
Personally, I find it much more a...
Personally, I find it much more a...
Thanks for your explanation Sky.
Yes, I understand and appreciate the concept of flow. I started using the term "flow day" several years ago to describe long day trips on skis, after reading Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's book on the subject. I've experienced flow on both long tours and steep descents.
Your comments explain why you prefer unroped skiing, but not why roped skiing is silly. Silly, to me, implies something ridiculous or weak or even mildly conte...
Yes, I understand and appreciate the concept of flow. I started using the term "flow day" several years ago to describe long day trips on skis, after reading Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's book on the subject. I've experienced flow on both long tours and steep descents.
Your comments explain why you prefer unroped skiing, but not why roped skiing is silly. Silly, to me, implies something ridiculous or weak or even mildly conte...
Hey Dave....I heard you were practicing for the new sport of extreme summersaulting ;)
Awesome trip guys.
Awesome trip guys.
...Sometimes when the photo has been manipulated in an image program it'll loose this header information (as happen to my photos a lot with Photoshop).
in Photoshop when you "save for web" most of the header information is removed to streamline the file.
for those interested in photo-related information, i suggest the following sites:
http://www.photo.net a wonderful site. i spend way too much time here...
http...
Thanks, Matt & Jeff. I looked at one of Phil's shots of Kam in Photoshop and saw it was shot at f 8 at 1/1,000 sec. with a focal length of 175mm . . .
Ditto what Matt just said. You can also see the header details in Windows XP. Save the image to your computer, right-click and go to 'Properties', choose the 'Summary' tab and hit the 'Advanced' button. Sometimes when the photo has been manipulated in an image program it'll loose this header information (as happen to my photos a lot with Photoshop).
......way to ski those chutes down to the base. ;DIt sure saves the "geezers" on the tourture points when it's so close to the car ;).
oh, like this (sorry, i can't reveal the location. it's one of our secret stashes...)
Unlike Kam's "secret" stash, with photo, mentioned above ;D, now that is really skiing down to the base. Way to go Kam and...
Nice pics Kam and Phil!
Most digital cameras add some exif data (shutter speed, focal length, ect.) to the header in jpgs. Some editing programs can read them (Photoshop can for example, if you go to the file browser and click on the file the info will appear at the bottom of the window). For those without Photoshop or another fancy editor, or those on Linux systems, jhead is a small open source program to read the headers.
Most digital cameras add some exif data (shutter speed, focal length, ect.) to the header in jpgs. Some editing programs can read them (Photoshop can for example, if you go to the file browser and click on the file the info will appear at the bottom of the window). For those without Photoshop or another fancy editor, or those on Linux systems, jhead is a small open source program to read the headers.
Olalla, was anyone in your pary by chance carrying two pairs of skis? If so I skied right by your party.
Nice trip, and what a great posting, thanks.
In your estimation would the SW Chutes be in shape to ski (assuming reasonable weather) on July 4? I have been busy with work and family responsibilities, but ache to get back there to ski the SW Chutes, especially after reading your post.
Thanks.
In your estimation would the SW Chutes be in shape to ski (assuming reasonable weather) on July 4? I have been busy with work and family responsibilities, but ache to get back there to ski the SW Chutes, especially after reading your post.
Thanks.
wow. just checked in to see what the uninjured people are up to lately. great trip report, it must have been an outstanding ski!
Lowell, there were many, many days last winter and spring with a 5000' snow level and precipitation. The snowfall in the ski area at Baker was dismal, but on the surrounding hills, strellar. As a result, there is much good snow above 5500 ft. A trip to Coleman Pinnacle will be on snow from the Wells Creek/Swift Creek divide for several more weeks.
Greg, I cheated and looked at the summary details in the file header of one of Phil's images.
Jeff, how does one view the file header?
...way to ski those chutes down to the base. ;D
oh, like this (sorry, i can't reveal the location. it's one of our secret stashes...)
jw, jeanette, and ron j--you guys are animals! way to ski those chutes down to the base. ;D
Cass, you just used the words 'fun' and 'patch' in the same sentence... ;D
I have no idea what you're talking about ;)
JW.... high five!
Cass, you just used the words 'fun' and 'patch' in the same sentence... ;D
...fun patch
Cass, you just used the words 'fun' and 'patch' in the same sentence... ;D
I can't tell you how much I appreciate your report. I was sick for the month of May and haven't gotten back out. I keep thinking about getting up on Muir and wondering what it is like with this sullen weather we've been having. I know Rainier - be prepared for anything! Thanks for the great detail!
There are two advantages to going out with the ski papparazzi. Reliving all those wonderful images and a fighting chance for staying with the greyhounds when they slow down to take shots. Thanks for all your wonderful images. What timing! Going up with a cloud umbrella and just as we were about to descend--beautiful sunshine. Some of the best corn on the wall in this spring/summer of mush.
Phil gets the group A award and Paul gets the silver lens trophy for our older group B. Hey didn't we ca...
Phil gets the group A award and Paul gets the silver lens trophy for our older group B. Hey didn't we ca...
Nope that's the newly named Peer Pressure A few degrees east of the famous Fear Factor 8)
Us local kids call that line Chute to Kill 8)
Great pictures thanks for sharing. Glad that you got out. I was fooled by the cloud cover. It is good to see that the weather was nice above 6000ft! I decided to go for bike ride to try and find my avy probe I lost in the winter. Got to the trail head stretched, prepped the bike...
Darren and I were climbing up the ridge toward Piker's Peak with our daughters when we saw this rogue helmet making a beeline for Lunch Counter. To learn that it was reunited with its owner and in fact beat us to the summit is amazing.
We skied from the summit at 1:00 PM and stayed to skier's left of the climb route. Best skiing I have had in the state this year!
Great report. I was pretty sure that there were other TAYers on the mountain Friday.
We skied from the summit at 1:00 PM and stayed to skier's left of the climb route. Best skiing I have had in the state this year!
Great report. I was pretty sure that there were other TAYers on the mountain Friday.
md2020 wrote: "Continuing on we were tempted by the activities of a good sized group of skiers yo-yoing the ridge between the pinnacle and the nearer peak, but we stuck to plan and headed to the high pt just west of the pinnacle."
The good sized group was a combination of two parties of four each, and we chose to split into a lazy skiers group, going for turns right away, and a touring group, going for more distance and other opportunity for descents. Both were tota...
The good sized group was a combination of two parties of four each, and we chose to split into a lazy skiers group, going for turns right away, and a touring group, going for more distance and other opportunity for descents. Both were tota...
I don't know, but I'm thinking the "twist" video is actually hard proof of a rough interrogation of Yasir Arafat on the harsh and unforgiving slopes of Rainieramo.
Finally, I know Mad_Dog's true profession.
Finally, I know Mad_Dog's true profession.
Nope that's the newly named Peer Pressure
No wonder I didn't recognize the name (and my recollection of the Fear Factor view appears to be hazy after only a couple weeks ???); looks like a fun patch ;)
Nope that's the newly named Peer Pressure A few degrees east of the famous Fear Factor 8)
Fancy gear does have a little to do with it, but geez, these photos are really awesome, surely that's the photographer's fault - now I know what crew to ski with if I want great photos of me!
Thanks for posting the TR Kenji. I liked our late start at 9am then catching that great sun break for the descent at 3pm. Kam, and crew, nice to meet up with you on the way out if not on the slope. You looked good flying by on our way up! Thought I saw a few SLR's being slung around -- really fantastic pics. Here's a few more shots to share (from a smaller Nikon 8400):
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID=380178195
Paul
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&albumID=380178195
Paul
Great shots, guys. This comparing photo stuff is neat. I guess we were bit out-gunned in the camera dept. My tiny canon s1 doen't cut any more after only 1.5 year. So where is Paul? We need his photos too.
Nice work on round three! 8) I may have to head back there for some July "patch" turns ;)
After our first, run my peers decided I should ski this skinny line,Is that "skinny line" at the bottom of Fear Factor? Nice patch work Jerry 8)
Yeah, one thing that hanging out with Kam has taught me (other than that I'll miss his infectious good humor when he's in Virginia) is that I need a better camera.
I concur Greg. I love my N80 but as you might notice my slides are s l o w to appear on TAY or even before friends.
Kuddos to your fabulous photos Kam and Phil. Inspirational. Kam, I particularly love the "gear sale" photo on the summit of JM, MP, and PH. So colorful...
Looks like there were a lot of good photo-skiers on the Baker last Saturday. Beautiful shots Kam. Here's my febble attempt to catch Nick in action. I think he beat the climbers back to camp. 
Lowell - Yes, couldn't agree more. The people at Holden, both residents and visitors alike are all very nice and were quite inquisitive of our adventure. Having spent a fair amount of time in the Chelan area, I think it has something also to do with the lifestyle on that side of the mountains.