TR Replies
That slope is sort of my favorite short lap above Clara Lake. Damn it.
The Easterners may be slow, but they sure had fun! http://www.justgetout.net/Wenatchee/post/The-Patrol-Race-Revisited
Oh by the way, that "attractive blonde" is Nigel's wife Sarah. :)
Funnest moments of the day for me at Checkpoint 2, sharing conversation with "my people," the old geezers, male and female. Congratulations, well done.
Oh by the way, that "attractive blonde" is Nigel's wife Sarah. :)
Funnest moments of the day for me at Checkpoint 2, sharing conversation with "my people," the old geezers, male and female. Congratulations, well done.
When I'm old and sitting in my rocker, my claim to fame will be that I used to try to follow your tracks every now and then.
Oh wait, I already am old, and already do make that claim.
Oh wait, I already am old, and already do make that claim.
Results: http://results.chronotrack.com/event/results/event/event-6549?lc=en
If there is another foot or two of snow on top of the hard crust near the bottom of the pack, I doubt that I would even go up the logging road as the areas between the switchbacks are very steep and not anchored by trees in many areas.
An 'upside down snowpack' is also referred to when a storm comes in cold and goes out warm. You get low-density snow (cold dry) on the bottom, then when the temperatures warm up the top layer will be high-density (warm heavy) snow. Upside down snowpack. This would be an unstable scenario. Also can be referred to as 'storm slab'.
A 'right side up snowpack' refers to a storm coming in wet and going out cold, which is a good scenario. The wet snow typically...
A 'right side up snowpack' refers to a storm coming in wet and going out cold, which is a good scenario. The wet snow typically...
We were up at Blewett today. It's amazing to see how much snow is there now compared to when we visited on Friday. It looks like mid-Winter now instead of late fall!! The snow was great, but we just did some of the XC trails and low angle trees for exercise before going to ski at Snoqualmie. Whatever layers were of concern that avajane mentioned are now buried under an impressive amount of new snow. I'd be curious to hear what others who go up there this week find in terms of snow stab...
author=kerwinl link=topic=30781.msg128844#msg128844 date=1392684401]
The windslab in general will be denser as the wind breaks down the snow crystals and allows them to pack in more tightly, windslab (dense snow) over light powder is upside down in terms of ideal snowpack (where you would want the most dense layers on the bottom). It is advisable to avoid windslabs over weak snow (upside-down snow), as the wind-slabs are most likely not bonding to anything und...
The windslab in general will be denser as the wind breaks down the snow crystals and allows them to pack in more tightly, windslab (dense snow) over light powder is upside down in terms of ideal snowpack (where you would want the most dense layers on the bottom). It is advisable to avoid windslabs over weak snow (upside-down snow), as the wind-slabs are most likely not bonding to anything underneath them, and thus relying on the strength of the slab to prevent release.
Yes Aaron, that was the area. Only been able to ski there recently. After the first snow I went up but it was a disaster as there was 18" of dry powder and the bottom was rock and dirt.
The crust that formed during the warm spell allowed this weekends skiing.
The crust that formed during the warm spell allowed this weekends skiing.
Were you near King Creek avajane? We were up there yesterday on the other side of the highway between 5 Mile and Tronsen. I was surprised at the variability in snow depth. Roughly 2 feet on the level in protected areas and drifting on the lee of ridge tops to 4 feet or more. In exposed areas and under the canopy just a thin layer over dirt and pine needles.
Yes snow can collect a lot faster than that. At Mission I've seen foot thick wind pillows form in less than an hour on Windy...
Yes snow can collect a lot faster than that. At Mission I've seen foot thick wind pillows form in less than an hour on Windy...
Yeah, wind can move an amazing amount of snow very quickly. An area like Blewett (dry side of crest, lighter snow, shallower snowpack) can showcase this well. My GF and I were up there on Friday and it was quite windy. We played around on the ridges and in the trees and I dug a big pit for her for the purpose of education. I'd say average snow depth was 2 1/2 feet, give or take,but within a fairly small area we saw everything from bare ground to roughly 6' of snowpack where I dug the p...
Silas/Susan thanks for the report and pictures, looks like a good crowd, tough day.
Thanks for the TR!
Have you seen the NWAC observation page? Observations can be added by anyone on their GIS page. Seems like a pretty cool tool for sharing data easily.
Have you seen the NWAC observation page? Observations can be added by anyone on their GIS page. Seems like a pretty cool tool for sharing data easily.
Wind can move a lot of snow quickly. The FSAvalanche page claims deposition rates as high as 10 times that of natural snowfall.
http://www.fsavalanche.org/Encyclopedia/wind_loading.htm
At Alpental yesterday, a 10" windlip leading into the lower entrance to Upper Nash rarely showed more than two tracks, even though skiers were skiing through it at least once every minute or two. When conditions are right, you can see far more loading than 1' in 20 hr.
...
http://www.fsavalanche.org/Encyclopedia/wind_loading.htm
At Alpental yesterday, a 10" windlip leading into the lower entrance to Upper Nash rarely showed more than two tracks, even though skiers were skiing through it at least once every minute or two. When conditions are right, you can see far more loading than 1' in 20 hr.
...
Thanks for the pics Susan and Charlie!
My photos are here, mostly covering the first third-to-half of the pack.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64728404@N03/sets/72157641043441094/
If you lost a belt on the race, one of the racers handed it off to us. Identify it, perhaps including the distinctive manufacturer, and it's yours.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64728404@N03/sets/72157641043441094/
If you lost a belt on the race, one of the racers handed it off to us. Identify it, perhaps including the distinctive manufacturer, and it's yours.
Thanks for the update, Silas - I was stuck at the office all day. That would be Holly Walker Davis, I assume, there are two Holly Walkers who do Vertfest . . .
Charlie and I opted to do some spectating this year. Here are my pictures looking down on the race from Chair 1, from the top of bootpack 1, and from lap 2 just outside of elevator gate:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/susanashlock/sets/72157641061576923/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/susanashlock/sets/72157641061576923/
http://www.revelstoketimesreview.com/news/245704531.html?mobile=true
Sad day, I don't think they will be the last to die from this layer. They might not even be the last to die this long weekend. Now I know what the helicopter was long lining from bolder this afternoon on my way home...
Sad day, I don't think they will be the last to die from this layer. They might not even be the last to die this long weekend. Now I know what the helicopter was long lining from bolder this afternoon on my way home...
As an amendment, just around the corner toward Mission, there was another natural release that took out the boundary ropes, and left a 5 or 6 foot debris pile on the terrain break. There are still plenty of bear traps out there.
When I was there with Mike in low snow conditions, I skied back to the inbounds area across an obvious steep avalanche slope and said something about "big slides and bad runnouts" I was particularly impressed by the huge terrain trap the basin below made. Is the ski area just left of those pictures? Thanks for posting. Stay safe.
Thanks John...Super helpful info...variable funkyness all over.
Great report and excellent analysis and self-awareness. Thanks for your willingness to share.
Glad you made it home safe. We all need to hear these reminders on the regular.
So much for thinking the scree could still be providing some anchoring in the shallow snowpack! A good safe lesson for me to remember, thanks for posting it.
John
John
Fantastic skiing today inbounds at Mission. LOTS of results from control work, explosive and ski cut.
author=mikerolfs link=topic=30744.msg128648#msg128648 date=1392318282]
I think maybe the ski area is a good place to be for a few days.
Amen Brother.
Scary. Natural slides in areas we frequent. I skied in-bounds yesterday (same time you were seeing this) and did not see similar. I think maybe the ski area is a good place to be for a few days.
That's the region we were in the day prior. I was nearby on Sunday the conditions had changed drastically.
There was an unsupportable crust with some saturation of the near-surface snow where we were. It was not a good day to be skiing.
On the way out heather canyon on Saturday, we were sympathetically triggering collapses on the flats as conditions warmed towards 5 pm. I think that's likely when those fractures formed that you saw the following day (see photo i...
There was an unsupportable crust with some saturation of the near-surface snow where we were. It was not a good day to be skiing.
On the way out heather canyon on Saturday, we were sympathetically triggering collapses on the flats as conditions warmed towards 5 pm. I think that's likely when those fractures formed that you saw the following day (see photo i...
Sunday we super sketchy over on Pea Gravel ridge. The snow definitely changed overnight from light powder to heavy snow making it nearly impossible to turn. We saw several natural fracture in the tree line and heard whumphing sounds on our ascent up. Definitely not safe anywhere up there right now.
Thanks for the report. I'm going to paste your conclusions after the close call here, in case folks don't visit to read the whole thing. Good insights.
[quote="cascadekid's report"]Commitment: Though we had inched only 20′ or so onto the slope from the ridge line before digging a pit and making a decision to ski, I had an unquestioned feeling that we were going to ski the slope. With a splitboarder in the group, the idea of transitioning back in...
[quote="cascadekid's report"]Commitment: Though we had inched only 20′ or so onto the slope from the ridge line before digging a pit and making a decision to ski, I had an unquestioned feeling that we were going to ski the slope. With a splitboarder in the group, the idea of transitioning back in...
author=Garth_Ferber link=topic=30687.msg128430#msg128430 date=1392054086]
So cool that Wolf is still alive and interested to hear the results, and to think about he did the race himself at about the age many of us are now, on equipment he would have considered modern at the time, like the equipment we consider modern now.
Our birthday wishes to Wolf Bauer prompted me to dig into my audio files and pull out the recording I made of...
author=savegondor link=topic=30686.msg128610#msg128610 date=1392247119]
I do think skiing from OB into IB on cowboy should probably be prohibited on Cowboy. and maybe it already is. just seems like a liability disaster waiting to happen. my slide didn't hurt anyone...but the other skier involved probably lost his ski forever under 10-12 feet of snow.
In Whistler there are lots of areas that are "out of bounds"...
my only input on the FLY is that given the conditions there doesn't really seem to be a safe zone anywhere in those pics you offered. if i'm going to take some chances I'm going to look at something that has a nice ridge-line...like those AK skiers do with all their 'sluff-management' skilz. probably a topic for hot air. i digress.
author=Robert Connor link=topic=30686.msg128584#msg128584 date=1392226082]
I too have triggered a slide on Cowboy Ridge. I think it was too small to endanger people below me, but I don't know for sure. I do know that it was scary as hell being carried towards a tree studded gully thinking "this is not good, this is not good, gotta stop." I am shaking enough it is hard to type just thinking back to it.
I don't know that I can b...
Thanks for all of the good replies everyone. There have been some very useful thoughts posted here, many of which we will likely incorporate into our routine. In response to Aaron_Wright's post about the rib, I am not sure if that was really a terrain feature or not, as I have not been there in the summer time. If it was from avalanche deposition, it was still significant enough in size to confine the slide to that one path down the fan. Also, I agree that it is poss...
Interesting. Good post incident analysis. You guys essential ski cut the wind slab from below. Is that rib where skier 1 stopped really a terrain feature or the debris fan from Zipper? It looks like if you had skied the fall line out of the coolie that you might have avoided the slab. Not that it matters, as you've noted you shouldn't have been there.
author=savegondor link=topic=30686.msg128433#msg128433 date=1392054920]
but in bounds being safe? that's just plain stupid. as are some of the openings patrol have done in my experience. I've set off a couple on cowboy ridge that to my shame put others in danger. and i've seen some good wet snow slides at crystal run into the groomers and endanger many a gaper.
I too have triggered a slide on Cowboy Ridge. I think it...
author=Roger Strong link=topic=30730.msg128570#msg128570 date=1392217926]
breaking trail on 6" of heavy new at 5:45am, 3,200ft...telemetry was correct and knowing it was going to be a lower angle lap through old growth, we were curious of the 18" of new above 5k...pit profile at 5,200 answered expectations:
isolated CT on WSW 28 degree slope; 155cm from surface to 9 day old rain crust (bonding to that layer is decent and could not find the...
Thanks for the update Roj - this weekend could be quite a mess! Glad you're out getting some cardio :)
Thanks for the report. I see you just moved to Wenatchee. Hope to get to ski with you one of these days.
Here is Jeff Ward's report at Stevens Pass for same day: spooky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mw7xQgL4eY
Here is Jeff Ward's report at Stevens Pass for same day: spooky.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mw7xQgL4eY
Well said Nick, totally agreed. Great days don't necessarily have to be on the gnarlyist of the gnar. We kept it mellow, lapping the SE slopes of the Castle-Foss area, skipping among big pockets of crazy light and fun wind deposit. No instabilities were observed and a good time was had by all. Low stress, high reward skiing. Doesn't get much better!
Glad you all had a great day out. It was cool running into you guys at Safeway; we'll have to get after it sometime. Nips...
Glad you all had a great day out. It was cool running into you guys at Safeway; we'll have to get after it sometime. Nips...
Good to see you still skiing powder and still stump finding ;) My side is starting to shape up!
Thank you for sharing your experience, which hopefully has led you to what I have come to call a Risk Assessment Reset Episode. All of our actions in the mountains involve some element of risk and usually the risk tolerance is determined by our level of experience, confidence in our abilities, and our confidence in our own assessments, which can often be jaded by "what we were able to get a away within the past". These RARE moments, are to my mind are critical parts to avalanche awaren...
author=Micah link=topic=30686.msg128523#msg128523 date=1392141482]
I wanted to ask if you (folks involved in this incident and the community generally) think assessing the snow in the couloir from the top after climbing up another route would have worked out better. I'm not familiar with the area, so I don't know if the line can be accessed in a way other than climbing it or if alternate up tracks are any safer. I am not advocating for one practice o...