WMC Update 2012

Ruffryder and Yammadog

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Regarding the constant reference to educating the snowmobilers to respect the skiers and the snowshoers, well that has been the method used by the FS for the last 25 years and a lot of money has been spent educating. How hard is it to learn that you can't use snowmobiles in the wilderness? This has been proven to not work because they still trespass. So lets not talk about spending more money on education please.

As an example, for 37 years snowmobile riders are violating a closure in the Yakama Nation's Mt. Adams Area-

"For nearly 37 years illegal snowmobiling has been occurring on the Yakama
Nation’s Mt. Adams area. This snowmobiling has been steadily increasing. These
activities are having a detrimental impact on our wildlife such as mountain goats,
white-tailed ptarmigans, marmots, picas, and the rare wolverine. Snowmobiling has
also caused some damage to the fragile vegetation in the Bird Creek Meadows area.
It causes ruts on snowfields and glaciers that widen and deepen in the summer,
accelerating snowmelt and scarring the landscape." From the WSSA website.

documents.clubexpress.com/documents.ashx...qb2WWnSTsMhiSw%3d%3d

Education clearly has not worked in 37 years!

The areas in the WMC proposal will provide clear Boundaries that are enforceable. The WMC proposal will provide significant new areas for winter non-motorized recreation. Thanks.

Regarding the constant reference to educating the snowmobilers to respect the skiers and the snowshoers, well that has been the method used by the FS for the last 25 years and a lot of money has been spent educating. How hard is it to learn that you can't use snowmobiles in the wilderness? This has been proven to not work because they still trespass. So lets not talk about spending more money on education please.

Really? How much has been spent? What exactly was it spent on?

it just looks like there are fewer because the freakin trailers take up so much space.

no, I took that into account...

As an example, for 37 years snowmobile riders are violating a closure in the Yakama Nation's Mt. Adams Area-

"For nearly 37 years illegal snowmobiling has been occurring on the Yakama
Nation’s Mt. Adams area. This snowmobiling has been steadily increasing. These
activities are having a detrimental impact on our wildlife such as mountain goats,
white-tailed ptarmigans, marmots, picas, and the rare wolverine. Snowmobiling has
also caused some damage to the fragile vegetation in the Bird Creek Meadows area.
It causes ruts on snowfields and glaciers that widen and deepen in the summer,
accelerating snowmelt and scarring the landscape." From the WSSA website.

documents.clubexpress.com/documents.ashx...qb2WWnSTsMhiSw%3d%3d

Education clearly has not worked in 37 years!

The areas in the WMC proposal will provide clear Boundaries that are enforceable. The WMC proposal will provide significant new areas for winter non-motorized recreation. Thanks.

37 years? I thought snowmobiling has only been able to get around in the last 10 years?  Education? How has this been addressed to the snowmobiling public?

No one is saying snowmobilers haven't gone places they shouldn't have, but it is interesting here how far some bad apples can spoil the bunch, and how it can be used by people that don't want snowmobilers in their riding areas.

Since such despicable language as above is allowed here, WMC will ask please for decent and civil discussion here. WMC recognizes that others have opposition to some concepts, that is their right. In response to those in opposition, WMC will strongly state its case and disagree, argue, but will endeavor to not characterize or name-call any individual taking a different or opposition viewpoint. We ask for proper language, civil behavior, and good faith discussion and debate. Thank you.

zealot is what the above is about? I think the analogy was pretty good, if not extreme.

Part of the problem is the following.
The arguments for your stated purpose are inconsistent at best. There isn't much of a discussion going on with the WMC (third person?). WMC has continually brought up small examples of misbehavior of snowmiblers in order to paint all snowmobilers in that same light. WMC has constantly changed the reasoning for its purpose here and is inconsistent in its methodology. This is turning into nothing more then a land grab scenario, with the eventual purpose to make the proposed land wilderness.

If this discussion was really about skiers getting increased terrain that is day accessible, why is a lot of discussion based on how bad snowmobilers are?

Ruffryder,

Just go to any FS district office and ask them to see their winter budget and they will show you the dollars spent everyear on "education". It is there, just ask. Again, how many times does the FS have to tell snowmobilers to not tresspass into the wilderness area?

Here are some numbers to chew on from Camping Life Magazine and the Outdoor Industry Association:

In 1994 440,000 snowshoes were purchased in the USA.
In 1996 more than 1 million snowshoes were purchased.
In 1998 there were 2.9 million snowshoers in the USA.
In 2007 there were 5.5 million snowshoers in the USA.
42% of all snowshoers have children under the age of 18.

So where are all of these individuals supposed to go with their families to snowshoe? We don't have access to the wilderness areas in this area (OWNF). Outside of wilderness the Okanogan-Wenatchee NF, and all national forests for that matter, are dominated by one user group - snowmobiles. The current situation on the National Forests outside of wilderness is open to motorized users. What snowmobilers have is a defacto motorized play area on the vast majority of the forest. I support WMC in trying to find equality between the user groups, as it stands now. These figures above do not even include skiers, snowboarders, dog sledders, etc.
I hope and expect the FS to provide us with both access and acreage to be able to enjoy the forest in the same way that snowmobiles are allowed access and acreage to enjoy their sport. I would like to be able to drive to a FS road and step out to a non-motorized plyaground just as like you do.