WMC Update 2012

  zealot is what the above is about?  I think the analogy was pretty good, if not extreme. 

This is turning into nothing more then a land grab scenario, with the eventual purpose to make the proposed land wilderness.

you've got the land grabbing part right, but the motorheads have already done the land grabbing.

Ruffryder,

Just go to any FS district office and ask them to see their winter budget and they will show you the dollars spent everyear on "education". It is there, just ask. Again, how many times does the FS have to tell snowmobilers to not tresspass into the wilderness area?

About as many times as they have to tell hikers to pack their garbage out? lol

Here are some numbers to chew on from Camping Life Magazine and the Outdoor Industry Association:

In 1994 440,000 snowshoes were purchased in the USA.
In 1996 more than 1 million snowshoes were purchased.
In 1998 there were 2.9 million snowshoers in the USA.
In 2007 there were 5.5 million snowshoers in the USA.
42% of all snowshoers have children under the age of 18.

I am not sure what that has to do with anything.. How about we focus on the local area.

So where are all of these individuals supposed to go with their families to snowshoe? We don't have access to the wilderness areas in this area (OWNF). Outside of wilderness the Okanogan-Wenatchee NF, and all national forests for that matter, are dominated by one user group - snowmobiles. The current situation on the National Forests outside of wilderness is open to motorized users. What snowmobilers have is a defacto motorized play area on the vast majority of the forest. I support WMC in trying to find equality between the user groups, as it stands now. These figures above do not even include skiers, snowboarders, dog sledders, etc.
I hope and expect the FS to provide us with both access and acreage to be able to enjoy the forest in the same way that snowmobiles are allowed access and acreage to enjoy their sport. I would like to be able to drive to a FS road and step out to a non-motorized plyaground just as like you do.

This statement makes it sound like snowmobilers can and do ride everywhere, every single acre of forest land that is not wilderness.  Is that what you are stating here?

you've got the land grabbing part right, but the motorheads have already done the land grabbing.

Motorheads? Do you even know any snowmobilers? If you are going to say motorheads, does that mean I can call skiers click-clicks? Or are we trying to keep this civil? Just curious what the ground rules are.

Given the topic, this has gone pretty well.  Trying to keep it civil would be excellent.  ruffryder and yammadog have been doing a pretty good job at that (though comparing WMC's position/tactics to a child rapist is pure, offensive hyperbole).  Motorheads, haters, click-clicks, whatever -- we won't stand a chance of coming to a common ground if we go down that road (or continue down it, I guess).

I think that an assumption that everyone in the thread is participating in good faith will go a long way toward that.  Lumping an entire user group into one description will never get us anywhere and it's clear that there is thoughtful, intelligent reasoning to be had with either group, just as it's clear that each group has its fair share of folks that would rather just throw stones.

37 years? I thought snowmobiling has only been able to get around in the last 10 years?  Education? How has this been addressed to the snowmobiling public?

No one is saying snowmobilers haven't gone places they shouldn't have, but it is interesting here how far some bad apples can spoil the bunch, and how it can be used by people that don't want snowmobilers in their riding areas.

That article is posted, as stated above, on the WSSA website. Please contact your Washington State Snowmobile Association to argue the points of that specific article.

documents.clubexpress.com/documents.ashx...qb2WWnSTsMhiSw%3d%3d

Again, the point is that we would argue that education has not been effective to enforce Closures mandated by Law.

Thank you.

That article is posted, as stated above, on the WSSA website. Please contact your Washington State Snowmobile Association to argue the points of that specific article.

documents.clubexpress.com/documents.ashx...qb2WWnSTsMhiSw%3d%3d

Again, the point is that we would argue that education has not been effective to enforce Closures mandated by Law.

Thank you.

So sending the flier out to WSSA after 37 years validates that education isn't effective for 37 years?

What does this have to do with increasing ski access to terrain for day use?