WMC Update 2012

Ruffy how many skiers and snowshoers use the Forest compared to the 35000 registered snowmobiles, can you please tell us that? Do you think that there are more snowmobilers? Do you think that skiers should not interfere with snowmobile riding? Outside of Wilderness what portion of Forest should skiers have for their use unimpeded by snowmobiles?

Thanks.

I feel like I am getting set up for failure.. Do you know my wife?? ha ha

I don't know how many skiers and snowshoers use the forest.  Though, I think this is a poor question.  I have cross country skied at I-90 up at summit east, and their were a lot of skiers there.  There were also quite a few snow shoers there as well.

So, as to why I think it is a poor question, shouldn't it be stated as "How many skiers and snowshoers do you think there are that currently do or would utilize the areas that are in question?".  To that answer, from what I have seen, it isn't that much, though that only answers the "do", not the "would".

As to more snowmobilers or skiers? I think as a total there are more skiers. Though, again, shouldn't the question be, "Do I think there are more snowmobilers or skiers that use the back country?" I think there are more snowmobilers that use the back country.

What do you mean by interfere?  I don't have any issues with skiers.  I see them on any hills, I give them as much room as I can allow (sometimes you have to go withing 100 ft of them to get out of some place, or sometimes you don't see them until you are already committed to being in the vicinity of them).

As to what portion of areas outside of the wilderness, well now, that is the question now isn't it. How much of the Alpine area outside of wilderness? How much of the gladed areas outside of wilderness? So if I give you a number, and you calculate that this proposal is less then that number, does that justify your argument? lol..  Dang wife trained me good..

The Washington national forests contain:
- 7,812,000 acres of land
- 4,507,658 acres of land open to snowmobiles
- 1,103,818 acres of non-wilderness land closed to snowmobiles
- 2,261,444 acres of designated wilderness land, also closed to
snowmobiles

So skiers private access to about 70% of the best riding in the state? The wilderness, and the skiers have access to 7,812,000 acres of land.

Using these numbers, and below, since there is about a 50-50 split in users, and about a 50-50 split in areas open to snowmobilers, it looks like parity has already been achieved. Sounds good, case dismissed right?

The NVUM surveys for the Washington forests show there are
an estimated:
- 520,550 cross-country ski and snowshoe visits annually
- 362,900 snowmobile visits annually

Does the cross-country ski and snowshoe visits include locations near ski resorts? Like the ski trails at stevens? At Snoqualmie? Does Mission or Crystal have cross country ski trails?

estimate there are
112,942 cross-country skiers, 38,000 snowshoers, and 98,072
snowmobilers participating in the state.96

That looks a lot closer to 50 - 50 then previous statements and numbers show.

Ruffy....I"ve decided you can't have a give and take conversation with a zealot. Parity in his mind is just that....only in his mind...

pulling "facts" from a known hard line environmental group is like asking a child rapist if he can babysit your kids....

when WMC can't answer direct questions you know he has not thought this out and will have a hard time "communicating"...he'll just continue to repeat, over and over, the same line he starts with...We've poked huge holes in his dam and he doesn't understand the water is leaking out....if the rest of the user group wants to discuss this openly, then it can be productive, but WMC is a non-issue to me from this point forward.

when WMC can't answer direct questions you know he has not thought this out and will have a hard time "communicating"...he'll just continue to repeat, over and over, the same line he starts with...We've poked huge holes in his dam and he doesn't understand the water is leaking out....if the rest of the user group wants to discuss this openly, then it can be productive, but WMC is a non-issue to me from this point forward.

he? It is a committee.. Why do I always think about the star wars movie, where Han Solo says to Leia, "There is not time to discuss this with the committee" and Leia responds, "I am not a committee!".. ha ha

I find it interesting the WMC has not contacted any snowmobile clubs at all about this issue. This shows an unwillingness to work with other users on the subject. Snowmobilers do recognize the rights of others, though it seems skiers only methods of communicating their needs is through threats of restricting the snowmobile user groups. I think skiers need to become better organized, in a matter to represent their use, not in a manor to represent their thoughts of restricting others uses.

excellent. A motorhead love fest on a backcountry skiing forum. :

excellent. A motorhead love fest on a backcountry skiing forum. :

LOL...you should see us around a campfire we start out in the mountains while we're drinking our beer.....