TR Replies
author=Passenger link=topic=18494.msg78940#msg78940 date=1293391629]
Marcus, I believe you misunderstand my motivation for posting here. I have no interest in debating Snowolf. The value of this thread is in facilitating a discussion on backcountry safety. There must be some interest if the number of views is any indication. I have been lurking on this site for too many years to remember and will continue to do so, however if my style of making a point is...
Marcus, I believe you misunderstand my motivation for posting here. I have no interest in debating Snowolf. The value of this thread is in facilitating a discussion on backcountry safety. There must be some interest if the number of views is any indication. I have been lurking on this site for too many years to remember and will continue to do so, however if my style of making a point is detrimental to your fine work then I promise that you have heard the last from me. I would like to end w...
Very nice TR. The second photo is beautiful.
Welcome to TAY.
Welcome to TAY.
That's the kind of thing that's not going to be very helpful here, Passenger.
If y'all can't come to some agreement and neither of you will soften your position, please let it go. Snowolf's clarified his feelings and actions that day at length -- you don't have to believe him, of course, though I'm not sure why you're insisting on that.
If y'all can't come to some agreement and neither of you will soften your position, please let it go. Snowolf's clarified his feelings and actions that day at length -- you don't have to believe him, of course, though I'm not sure why you're insisting on that.
Snowolf, regarding your latest post.....The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
SaveGondor, you're entitled to your opinion, but your post neatly outlines a lack of understanding of some very basic facts about avalanches and backcountry avalanche forecasting.
Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to disassemble the remaining fallacies, bad information, and red herrings in your post.
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Unfortunately, I don't have time right now to disassemble the remaining fallacies, bad information, and red herrings in your post.
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author=savegondor link=topic=18494.msg78884#msg78884 date=1293318785](not perfect, and not sufficient, a...
Thanks for the Hood post. I agree with eweiseth that it is nice to see people talking about Hood. I know I would like to see more so I posted a recent trip. Mt. Hood - Newton Creek - 12-19-2010 - Headed up tomorrow, I'll try and let TAY'ers know what we find.
Yeah! That sure brings me back home vicariously. Thank you.
author=Joedabaker link=topic=18494.msg78887#msg78887 date=1293324248]
FWIW I am more concerned with my exposure than if I am making logical estimates of the conditions.
I agree. I've also seen that in the cases where I've been with a guide, they've put a lot of focus on planning around managing consequences of a possible slide, unless we were in low or on the cusp of low/moderate hazard conditions. In other words, avoid skiin a...
BTW Happy Holidays to all!
Not all science is exact and perfect. I get what you are saying about utilizing as much info as possible. I can't tell you the amount of geophysical projects I worked that were cut and dry science according to the engineers and ended up being a cluster of additional costs due to broken science.
Last year we dug a pit on the upper reach of a bowl and determined the snow condition to be a green light. We had over 100 years of cumulative backcountry e...
Not all science is exact and perfect. I get what you are saying about utilizing as much info as possible. I can't tell you the amount of geophysical projects I worked that were cut and dry science according to the engineers and ended up being a cluster of additional costs due to broken science.
Last year we dug a pit on the upper reach of a bowl and determined the snow condition to be a green light. We had over 100 years of cumulative backcountry e...
(sorry Marcus the these 'spats' are valuable to keep going)
Not at all -- this is great stuff. I think you may have misinterpreted my "amen" for Sky as a condemnation of all the stuff you're talking about, which isn't the case at all. I was more emphasizing my agreement with the fact that the brain is the most important thing to bring to the party.
The only thing that matters to me, re: th...
And merry Christmas to Marcus especially. Thanks for your hard work in moderating trolls like myself.
author=CookieMonster link=topic=18494.msg78856#msg78856 date=1293237708]
This is one of the best discussions I've ever read here. Thanks for all the great info.
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3. It is better to rely on local observations without using the bulletin than it is to rely on the bulletin without local observations. Obviously, this only applies to observers with the right mix of skill and experience.
I do like the...
The big moraine we skied in the middle I bet will be the sweet spot on future trips. We had our eye on that S aspect too, but did another run where we were, then headed down for something completely different but should have just lapped up rows of tracks where we were, that was some very nice snow and a nice longer run for that elevation.
Thanks everyone for the compliments. It's fun to read a thread here about Hood, I notice there are not many of them though and often wonder if...
Thanks everyone for the compliments. It's fun to read a thread here about Hood, I notice there are not many of them though and often wonder if...
A buddy and I skied in there yesterday from the WR snopark with similar conditions. The big moraine in the middle was still holding some great snow and we did a few laps next to your tracks. We decided to give the south facing moraine a shot and ended up being very disappointed with breakable crust, but I kind of expected that.
The terrain in WR has got to be some of the best on Mt Hood IMO.
The terrain in WR has got to be some of the best on Mt Hood IMO.
author=RonL link=topic=18560.msg78877#msg78877 date=1293289387]
If it's where I think it is then it only has a few parking spots and Ludvig is grumbling right about now. East side has some gems that are good to know about when its soggy on our side of the pass.
Oh no, the kids are waking up! Happy Holidays everyone.
Gotta Love Ludvig---and remember your slope conservation ettiquette boys and girls! Oh which, i am...
If it's where I think it is then it only has a few parking spots and Ludvig is grumbling right about now. East side has some gems that are good to know about when its soggy on our side of the pass.
Oh no, the kids are waking up! Happy Holidays everyone.
Oh no, the kids are waking up! Happy Holidays everyone.
Awesome Marcus - thanks! Merry Christmas all!
Nice! I love White River, Zig Zag and Newton Canyons
Happy Holidays. Definitely not trolling and don't want to argue; just trying to be resepectful of an east side post.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Nice -- great to see another Hood TR. Stoudema, just put you on the home page...
Looks like some pretty good snow! Thanks for the report!
This is one of the best discussions I've ever read here. Thanks for all the great info.
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1. Ski cuts are a perfectly valid method of testing snowpack instability.
2. Skiing is also a perfectly valid method of testing snowpack instability.
3. It is better to rely on local observations without using the bulletin than it is to rely on the bulletin without local observations. Obviously, this only applies to observers with the right mix of skill and...
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1. Ski cuts are a perfectly valid method of testing snowpack instability.
2. Skiing is also a perfectly valid method of testing snowpack instability.
3. It is better to rely on local observations without using the bulletin than it is to rely on the bulletin without local observations. Obviously, this only applies to observers with the right mix of skill and...
Nice TR! I'm hoping to get some turns in on Hood between now and Monday while I'm home for Christmas.
author=Passenger link=topic=18494.msg78825#msg78825 date=1293169088]
I don’t know a single skier who would not have skied that slope. The slope we were on was in fact bomber, it was an adjacent slope that went sympathetically and covered my partner at the end of his run.
Another good reminder - Tremper stresses the importance of being aware not only of the safety of the slope you are on, but of where you will end up, and that you shou...
Alecapone- thanks for showing me the goods around your favorite haunts. There was certainly good pow to be found, along with some not so good wind affected stuff as well- glad we got more of the former than the latter. Let's do it again under better vis.
Who would have known the Grinch had such a good slope right outside his door?! Mount Crumpit is awesome! Maybe that is why he avoided the other Whos in Whoville for so long?
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!...
Who would have known the Grinch had such a good slope right outside his door?! Mount Crumpit is awesome! Maybe that is why he avoided the other Whos in Whoville for so long?
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all!...
Nice pics. Just wanted to point out that the rock tower in the first pic is the "infamous" Phone Booth Peak, which has been a subject of controversy.(15 pages ). New route potential for you climber dudes !
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=666264#666264
http://www.nwhikers.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=666264#666264
I vote for Jim Oker as having the best post on this thread.
Stomping above kick turns and steep rollovers while ascending can give good info, as noted above, but if the layer of concern is deep enough, a hasty pit will be a lot more informative. I wouldn't want to rely on ski cuts alone, but they strike me as being a good "last sanity check" when other assessments say "go," at least in some cases (where I think I have a good idea of where a slide may be more likely to start such as a convexity and I also think I can ski quickly t...
We were up on Thursday 12/23. The gully doesn't seem like a good option for the uptrack. It would need a lot more fill and it is exposed to anything sliding from above. It is a fun descent, but could still use a little more snow at the bottom. I liked the uptrack on the rib, thank you to whoever set it.
We were a little late coming down and some of the sun affected snow was crusting over, an alternating mix of skiiable crust and fluff. I ran over a f...
We were a little late coming down and some of the sun affected snow was crusting over, an alternating mix of skiiable crust and fluff. I ran over a f...
Thanks. You're always welcome the pimp room.
Thinking of possibly heading down your way next week, and then for sure later in January when the Colorado guys are in town.
Thinking of possibly heading down your way next week, and then for sure later in January when the Colorado guys are in town.
I agree with Sky too.
When I am totally unfamiliar with an areas snowpack history a pit is a good idea to get some background data.
But if I am on the mountain 3-4 days a week digging a pit for my mental state is just a waste of energy. I am not against learning by any means, but there is a lot learned by having a lot of experiences. Dig all the pits you want if that makes you comfortable. But I would think that the real savvy tend to dig a lot of Hasty or micro pits to identify the ha...
When I am totally unfamiliar with an areas snowpack history a pit is a good idea to get some background data.
But if I am on the mountain 3-4 days a week digging a pit for my mental state is just a waste of energy. I am not against learning by any means, but there is a lot learned by having a lot of experiences. Dig all the pits you want if that makes you comfortable. But I would think that the real savvy tend to dig a lot of Hasty or micro pits to identify the ha...
Dug your musical accompaniment to the descent. What a timely selection. Schiller's truncated ode to Universal Brotherhood is translated below. Thanks for sharing your ski adventure and the musical reminder of life's joys.
Oh friends, not these tones!
Rather, let us raise our voices in more pleasing
And more joyful sounds!
Joy! Joy! Joy! Joy!
Joy, beautiful Godly spark
Daughter of Elysium,
We enter, drunk with fire,
Into your san...
Oh friends, not these tones!
Rather, let us raise our voices in more pleasing
And more joyful sounds!
Joy! Joy! Joy! Joy!
Joy, beautiful Godly spark
Daughter of Elysium,
We enter, drunk with fire,
Into your san...
Nice work Ale. Too bad I am out here in Greenwater, it would be nice to head back to your neck of the woods.
author=Marcus link=topic=18494.msg78787#msg78787 date=1293143991]
Amen. Well said Sky.
Well said.... but perhaps total B.S. I would think it a fairly simple and universal truth that more information is better than less. So dig a pit and take 5 minutes on the NWAC site. It's not hard, and the cost is low: that someone drops in your line before you. But that's also good avi control in my view, albeit potentially tragi...
Thanks for the good report. Always nice to see people talking about getting out on Hood.
author=Marcus link=topic=18634.msg78816#msg78816 date=1293163195]
Awesome -- I've been waiting for the first Bandit adventures, since you're not burdened by the mountain job this year.
The mountain job was great when we had enough lift ops on the chairs. With only one lift op at each station, that cuts into your ski time. :-[
Plus all the negative energy from the boss really turned me off. I figured my time...
author=Joedabaker link=topic=18634.msg78820#msg78820 date=1293166533]
Nice Bandit. Was the road pretty covered all the way up? I usually save this trip for the spring when everything is glop, it tends to corn up first because of the lower elevation. There are some pretty nice side Winter trips off the Buck Creek side too.
Only a couple of spots that were bare. That was under some heavy tree canopies. The top had about 2-3'.
Musings from one with too much time on his hands.
The discussion on the relative safety between groups and individual skiers is flawed in that it compares the best practices of the individual to the worst practices of a group. It is true that a cautious individual can be safe but once he ventures much beyond meadow skipping the situation changes. If you are on a slope with powder snow you are by definition in avalanche terrain. Without a partner you have no backup a...
The discussion on the relative safety between groups and individual skiers is flawed in that it compares the best practices of the individual to the worst practices of a group. It is true that a cautious individual can be safe but once he ventures much beyond meadow skipping the situation changes. If you are on a slope with powder snow you are by definition in avalanche terrain. Without a partner you have no backup a...
Nice Bandit. Was the road pretty covered all the way up? I usually save this trip for the spring when everything is glop, it tends to corn up first because of the lower elevation. There are some pretty nice side Winter trips off the Buck Creek side too.
Awesome -- I've been waiting for the first Bandit adventures, since you're not burdened by the mountain job this year.
author=Splitboard Graham link=topic=18494.msg78793#msg78793 date=1293146989]get explosive handling permit...
May I suggest.....Bolivia, where you can buy TNT sticks in hardware stores along with detonators, fuses and little bags of fertilizer to intensify the effect. Often enough, there's grain alcohol and a certain green leaf available too, just in case of failures of nerve. It's kind've similar to Kentucky back i...
author=skykilo link=topic=18494.msg78786#msg78786 date=1293143357]
... The most important safety tool is the brain and that's not being used when one is citing by rote what is and isn't acceptable without a whole lot of qualification.
Amen, for sure. So, the next time I see someone digging a pit i'll just remind them what a waste of snow it is..
and a nod to doc_i for the tgr link
what i'm taking from this thread: continually reevaluate information internally, externally, and interpersonally (when applicable) using whichever methods and metrics one finds most useful. Continually reevaluate the efficacy of chosen methods, metrics, and tools. staying alive in the mountains is an art and a science. get explosive handling permit...
author=Stefan link=topic=18494.msg78789#msg78789 date=1293144440">
I can't wait for the day when having dynamite will be one of the standard essentials to be considered a qualified backcountry skier.
BACKCOUNTRY BOMB :)