WMC Non-Motorized Advocacy

When I first started mountain biking, you could ride anywhere that was not wilderness or national park. I rode pretty much everything, and while I sometimes look back on those days with nostalgia, I realize it would not be feasible to have that kind of free for all with the current popularity of the sport. Management is sometimes a necessary function.

A couple of things to note when dealing with a bureaucracy like the Forest Service, if they are left to make policy, it will almost always be as close to the middle of an issue as they can find. The result is usually something no one likes, the best way to overcome the middle of the road no one is happy syndrome, is to create a collaborative solution bring the largest group possible to the table, solve the contentious issues (usually not easy), and go to the F.S. with 99% of the conflict resolved. It may still be real close to the middle of the road, but a poor meal always seems a little easier to eat, when you helped cook it.

If you talk to someone in the Supervisors office, and they seem to be on your side, its because you chose a side, the F.S. has the impossible task of keeping everyone happy, if you were happy after your conversation, their job is done.

A couple of things to note when dealing with a bureaucracy like the Forest Service, if they are left to make policy, it will almost always be as close to the middle of an issue as they can find.  The result is usually something no one likes, the best way to overcome the middle of the road no one is happy syndrome, is to create a collaborative solution bring the largest group possible to the table, solve the contentious issues (usually not easy), and go to the F.S. with 99%  of the conflict resolved.  It may still be real close to the middle of the road, but a poor meal always seems a little easier to eat, when you helped cook it. 

If you talk to someone in the Supervisors office, and they seem to be on your side, its because you chose a side,  the F.S. has the impossible task of keeping everyone happy, if you were happy after your conversation, their job is done.

Good points and thank you.

WMC attempted dialog extensively publicly and by email to listed WSSA and SAWS officers, and invited snowmobile representatives to meet. We have tried to bring groups together at the table. Our local WA State Rep Condotta agreed to host the meeting. OWNF Supervisor Heath was complimentary of such efforts and asked "include us" meaning USFS, her representatives. WMC would enjoy facilitating this, this remains a valid offer. The goal is, at a minimum, to listen and understand the other side and begin a dialog to look for collaborative solutions.

If one refers to the article  www.justgetout.net/Wenatchee/21163   the Proposal maps may be referenced. Based on discussions with skiers, skiers with snowmobiles, and snowmobile riders, WMC produced professional maps that show three variations- Proposal 1, 2 and 3. This represents the active seeking of possible common ground while suggesting solutions.

In our meetings at USFS District level and with the OWNF Supervisor and her staff we, WMC, were given the impression that such collaboration that resulted in agreement would possibly find support in USFS.

Yes, and thanks, we do know about the 'sides' thing and find it interesting when someone posts that they have the favor of USFS. Such favor is unlikely, and we do know of other influences on this situation that are much more important.

Citizen involvement of the majority off-road winter Forest users, non-motorized users, is important to this issue.

... I'm glad I live close to Canada.

Do you object to discussion, to citizens having ideas and opinions? Does your comment state your displeasure that anyone would discuss this?

We listened to your response about going on your snowmobile to Longs to camp and ski Stuart. We added that to the discussion as a possibility. If snomos stayed out of Wilderness, we are told the snomo riding from Longs and beyond is best- thus the idea to have non-motorized in Stafford and let snomos ride further out from the Sno Park.

What about folks without snowmobiles? In our Proposals 2 and 3 we considered your and other comments and pared it down to the areas most accessible by self-powered from the car folks.

The tactic used in opposition to winter non-motorized advocacy has been aggressive words etc to try to silence the discussion. That has been unsuccessful. Those who have tried to silence this discussion would now be alarmed to know the extent and size of the out of public discussion of many important and well know Organizations. We do this not just for ourselves but for the greater good, for reasonable management.

Many folks will spend money for Canadian hut trips, or for the Barron yurt. We have this pristine Wenatchee Mountains crest that could offer quality non-motorized recreation in winter, in the center of Washington, only if there was change to the current situation that the summits from Mission Ridge to Longs Pass and beyond have snowmobile traffic.

We are here to try to attract the interest and support of self-powered skiers. Thanks for discussion and for the support received.

Please weigh-in by Emailing, mailing, or calling: Rebecca Heath (Forest Supervisor) and the Forest Plan Revision Team: Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest Headquarters, 215 Melody Lane, Wenatchee, WA 98801,  r6_ewzplanrevision@fs.fed.us, (509) 664-9200.
Please Carbon Copy us. We respect your privacy and won't share your contact information or identity. Our email: wenatcheemountainscoalition@hotmail.com

USFS winter recreation management and winter travel management on Wenatchee NF  is not yet adequately addressed according to recent information. As a result, there is considerable communication and some letter-writing on the topic by many concerned individuals, advocates and Organizations. Please weigh in with you voice to support winter non-motorized recreation opportunities on te Forest.

The OWNF Draft Forest Plan is in progress, USFS folks tell us it will come out in June. Wenatchee Mountains Coalition has been an active participant in this discussion, (see www.justgetout.net/Wenatchee/21163 ). We are pleased that a number of Organizations much larger and more important than WMC are at the table with USFS, and are asking for management of snowmobiles/ winter recreation on the Forest. We are also thankful for the letters and calls supporting this initiative. On this self-powered skier website, we hope to reach folks who are interested in asking for more Forest areas to be designated for winter non-motorized recreation. If you are one of these folks, now is the time to send input to USFS!

Rebecca Heath (Forest Supervisor) and the Forest Plan Revision Team: Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest Headquarters, 215 Melody Lane, Wenatchee, WA 98801,  r6_ewzplanrevision@fs.fed.us, (509) 664-9200.

In ongoing discussions it is interesting to hear from OWNF folks how the Wenatchee NF stands out as one of the Forests lacking the type of management that we ask in the WMC Proposal (please see the article referenced above). Other examples including the Hwy 20 corridor exist within USFS where Forest lands are managed in winter with planning and designation of motorized and non-motorized areas outside of Wilderness. It is also interesting to read in the Forest Plan from 15 years ago that these issues need to be addressed. Here, long before WMC, are TAY threads in the past about these issues :

www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...index.php?topic=1489
www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...ex.php?topic=13450.0 ?
www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...index.php?topic=3909

These interesting threads from snowmobile forums are about recent snowmobile Wilderness trespass through Headlight Basin to the base of Mt Stuart-

www.backcountryrebels.com/showthread.php?t=15231
www.backcountryrebels.com/showthread.php?t=15270
www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268173

We received some communication from a person in USFS indicating basically, "problem solved" as a result of this thread above on BCR. Also included was the message that the "volunteer corps" made observations along the Wilderness Boundary included reports indication of snowmobile Wilderness trespass in one of five reports. The same individual last year sent the following message according to the posters on Snowest-

"Once again, the issue of snowmobilers riding in wilderness is rearing its head. This is not a new issue, as you know, but it seems to be on the increase again. We are getting more and more letters from backcountry skiers who are really unhappy about seeing and hearing snowmobiles in wilderness, and once again the drumbeats for closing routes that get close to wilderness are getting louder. As you know, we (the Forest Service) are completely unable to patrol these boundaries with any degree of effectiveness. We will be putting up signs, and flyers at sno-parks, but I'm also asking for your help in getting on top of this. If you could pass this message on to your riding buddies, clubs, and especially folks you see in the woods who may be inclined to ride in wilderness:
"RIDING IN WILDERNESS LEADS TO CLOSURES OUTSIDE WILDERNESS". Or as I like put it "Every time you put a track in wilderness, you hand a box of ammunition to those who want to shut down our sport" Also, if you are aware of an incursion point that could use a sign, contact me and I'll get you one. You guys have always been helpful , and I'd appreciate any continued help in getting the message out. I'm also not very computer savvy, so if anyone would like to post something on Sno-West or other appropriate forums, that would be great.. Thanks in advance for your help!


Tim Foss
Trails, Wilderness, ORV, and Winter Recreation Manager
Cle Elum Ranger District"

The primary purpose of the WMC proposal is to create winter non-motorized recreation areas on the Forest. Along with that, our Proposal allows for reasonable Enforcement to protect Wilderness from snowmobile trespass from the NF Teanaway Rd using existing USFS resources and budgets.

Again, even our WMC Executive folks use snowmobiles, we are not anti-snowmobile any more than we are anti-automobile!  I rode my new Ski Doo 650 miles this season, all to approach skitouring with friends or with my family. We seek management of snowmobiles on the Forest that results in significant increase of quality, winter non-motorized areas, instead of the current free-for-all that effectively defaults much of the Forest to snowmobile riding. In the Forest, vehicles are managed by rules stating they are allowed in certain areas and not allowed in other areas. Cars, trucks, Jeeps, motorcycles, ORVs,  mountain bikes, and even horses are managed on the Forest- but not snowmobiles- open for snowmobiles unless signed as closed or Wilderness- and enforcement is insignificant, even in the words of USFS in regard to snowmobile Wilderness trespass.

Please add your voice to our request for management of the winter Forest to include more significant, quality, winter non-motorized areas. Thank you.

The primary purpose of the WMC proposal is to create winter non-motorized recreation areas on the Forest. Along with that, our Proposal allows for reasonable Enforcement to protect Wilderness from snowmobile trespass from the NF Teanaway Rd using existing USFS resources and budgets.

Again, even our WMC Executive folks use snowmobiles, we are not anti-snowmobile any more than we are anti-automobile!  I rode my new Ski Doo 650 miles this season, all to approach skitouring with friends or with my family. We seek management of snowmobiles on the Forest that results in significant increase of quality, winter non-motorized areas, instead of the current free-for-all that effectively defaults much of the Forest to snowmobile riding. In the Forest, vehicles are managed by rules stating they are allowed in certain areas and not allowed in other areas. Cars, trucks, Jeeps, motorcycles, ORVs,  mountain bikes, and even horses are managed on the Forest- but not snowmobiles- open for snowmobiles unless signed as closed or Wilderness- and enforcement is insignificant, even in the words of USFS in regard to snowmobile Wilderness trespass.

The primary purpose is already achieved..you have your non-motorized areas and there are plenty. The USFS does not enforce anything that I'm aware of so why make more areas to not enforce. As far as your WMC Executive folks, what is that, one person?