WMC Non-Motorized Advocacy

I'm confused.
After reading this several times, I'm not seeing it.
Tell me where he talks about limiting access or exclusion of others?

Additionally, how can you say that Wilderness doesn't factor into this conversation?
Seriously, the only reason you say this is because it takes the wind out of your argument.

From everything I have read, Wenatchee Mountains Coalition (WMC) seeks to exclude use of public lands to others on the basis of there own agenda.

Yes, strongly agree with the first line.

Nearly all of the Forest in winter except the road system was non-motorized in winter before the advent of advanced snowmobile technology. That new technology is not managed in a meaningful fashion.

In the non-Wilderness Forest, snowmobile riding dominates because of lack of management. The Forest has not been designated or given to the snowmobile riders, it has been taken for snowmobile riding by accident of advanced snowmobile technology.

Please reread or have someone explain the issues of Wilderness and winter non-motorized use. We use Wilderness in winter. Most folks have few opportunities to get there. We do note that some like to thumb their nose at use of the Forest by the clear majority of winter offroad Forest users. The Forest is not and was not intended to be divided into two parts being 1) Wilderness and 2) Forest snowmobile terrain. The Forest is for all citizens, not just for motorized users. What about another favorite SAWS/ WSSA word- "share." Indeed, non-motorized users find themselves now asking for their share of the Forest, since lack of management allows snowmobiles to ride widely and unmanaged and thus remove reasonable use of the Forest from other citizens.

Unless one argues the preposterous idea that snowmobiling and pedestrian use on snowy slopes are together compatible, then logic concludes that snowmobile riding excludes the practical use of the snowy Forest by pedestrians- non-motorized Forest users.

"From what I have read"- have you read anything about this?

WMC encourages winter non-motorized Forest users to speak up for their use, the original use, of the winter Forest.

Nice little personal shot there.
Whatever.

For the record, I am not confused about your organization and it's intentions or the far reaching implications if you got your way.

I stand by my earlier statements.
Your platform is based upon the exclusion of others to suit your personal agenda.
End of story. You can type away ad nauseum here and anywhere else as long as you like, it still boils down to the same thing, Wenatchee Mountains Coalition (WMC) seeks to exclude use of public lands to others on the basis of their own agenda.

Alternate viewpoints are welcome: debate the viewpoint, not the person.

This kind of post and discussion is only okay here if it can stick to the above, WMC.  Issues like these are heated enough without taking jabs at the people that are trying to understand your proposals.

www.winterwildlands.org/resources/report...age_Report_final.pdf

This is probably a biased study in that it is from the Winter Wild Lands Alliance but I suspect that, in much of the area under discussion, the timber value of the land is a major consideration in management and I have certainly noted damage to trees from snow machines in the Wenatchee mountains...if this sort of damage is widespread I would suspect that the forest service would be legally obligated to institute a closure to preserve the value of the land and protect habitat.

Perhaps the best thing for all involved would be if the snow machining community instituted voluntary closures based on season and snow depth to limit damage to timber resources and habitat but still preserve access for part of the season? Climbers do something similar to preserve access to cliffs on which hawks nest in the Leavenworth area.

Edit: It is already happening on paper company land near spokane:

www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/nov/19/timber-trails-closed/

The WMC, you are starting this again?

Didn't you get ousted as getting caught lying about who you are on snowest?

We going to have to do the same old discussion again? We don't have to figure out the correct and accurate numbers to use in your arguments against us again do we?

You know, I see another snow user, and I think, cool man, another human being that likes being out in the snow..

The constant divisive manor in which these conversations go, creating an US vs THEM argument full of hostility does very little to help the cause.

In an age of tightening government budgets and realignment of financial importance with regards to the economy and jobs, I would think trying to group ALL snow users together would net a better result then just trying to restrict other snow users.

So is this the same WMC as before? Or as someone else taken over the reigns?

WMC wildly and provocatively overreaches in pitching non-motorized status for the entire Wenatchee Mountain divide.  Scatter Creek, Van Epps, Gallagher/Lake Ann - people aren't skiing there because of the machines - it's just too far to go without a machine.  Even Stafford is a haul for someone without a machine.  Oddly, other skiers with snowmo's(TobyT, Good2Go) who ski the "pristine" divide don't seem to be complaining.

I'm unfamiliar with the Mission Ridge area but things do work relatively well around Blewett with the mix of shared routes along with voluntary and official closures.  WMC should revise his maps to show the  Pipe Creek non-motorized area and the voluntary closure along Wenatchee divide toward Old Blewett Pass.  Somehow the voluntary closure up Jungle Creek in the Teanaway was also omitted.