WMC Non-Motorized Advocacy

Seriously?
These are not even close to being the same thing.

While the degree of soil disruption is not nearly the same, if you spent any time in the summer months where snowmobiles like to play you would see soil disruption and significant plant damage/destruction. The impact of pollution from noise and exhaust are somewhat subjective but I don't think they should be down played.

So please do not be apathetic, write in as follows;

Please weigh-in by Emailing, mailing, or calling: Rebecca Heath (Forest Supervisor) and the Forest Plan Revision Team: Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest Headquarters, 215 Melody Lane, Wenatchee, WA 98801,  r6_ewzplanrevision@fs.fed.us, (509) 664-9200.
Add your full name, city of residence, and phone number to the note so that the Forest Service can verify you're a real person.

Thank you for providing this contact info Scotsman. I've sent Rebecca a letter opposing the proposals drafted by WMC.

WMC has ruined "pristine" for me, not that I used it much anyway.

While the degree of soil disruption is not nearly the same, if you spent any time in the summer months where snowmobiles like to play you would see soil disruption and significant plant damage/destruction. The impact of pollution from noise and exhaust are somewhat subjective but I don't think they should be down played.

Interesting. I spend a significant amount of time on foot in the Teanaway during the summer. I can't say that I've ever noticed soil disruption or plant damage from sleds. I have, however, observed large amounts of soil disruption from human and horse traffic. Have you been up Cascadian Couloir lately? the horsecamp below Navaho Pass? Tuck and Robin Lakes? Waptus? Spectacle? Park Lakes? If this is your argument for excluding snowmobiles, I believe you should be prepared to eliminate all human traffic in these areas.

I appreciate the open-mindedness that I see on this board. I'm a sledder, but also a hiker and climber (well, scrambler, at least). I completely agree that Wilderness intrusion by snowmobiles is a problem in the Teanaway. Fortunately it is a minor problem, not the major one that WMC claims. On most sunny days, it is possible to find at least one set of snowmobile tracks between Turnpike and Hardscrabble. What is much less common, is finding ski tracks in this area. WMC likes to use terms like 'silent majority'. I'm sorry, but skiers are not even close to a majority in the Teanaway, at least during the peak sledding season (January-March). In fact, I can honestly say that I have NEVER seen a skier in the Beverly Voluntary Non-Motorized area. Those that use these areas typically either, 1) access it by sled, or 2) access it in the spring when the North Fork Road is melting out and sleds are no longer users. WMC has fabricated the conflict in this area (I won't speak for areas further east, near Mission).

This is no excuse for Wilderness trespass by sleds. That's why a group of us spent time this summer improving Wilderness boundary signage (and we will be patrolling this winter with cameras in hand, if snow conditions ever let us back up there!). We are trying to work within the snowmobile community to promote self-policing. We agree that the USFS does not have the manpower to enforce these difficult-to-access boundaries. I strongly encourage everyone, sledders included, to photograph any snowmobile you see in the Wilderness.

On a side note, if anyone knows of other common entry points for snowmobiles into Wilderness, please let me know. We added and improved signage this summer at Beverly-Turnpike, Beverly-Fourth, Stafford-Hardscrabble, Stafford-Cascade and Stafford-Falls entry points. These are the most common, that I'm aware of. There is already signage at Longs and Ingalls, and trespass seems to have dropped off in Headlight Basin over the past several years. I know there is probably some trespass in Van Epps, but it doesn't provide much access to good alpine terrain.

Feel free to contact me at: newtrout@hotmail.com if you'd like to discuss offline.

My biggest issue with unmanaged snowmobile use on the Forest is noise pollution and environmental impact. I really don't see why snowmobiles should not be restricted to designated travel routes like all other motorized and wheeled traffic. I have no problem finding untracked slopes to ski and only use sleds to access skiing with friends a few times a year, I don't own one and probably won't buy one. What is a good argument for snowmobiles having unrestricted access to the Forest outside of Wilderness? Would you argue that dirt bikes, ATVs and 4x4s have unrestricted access to the Forest? I'm really curious here, why is one more acceptable than the other?

Good points aaron and a worthwhile discussion. There is quite a lot to read about this, and new studies coming along about the impacts.

ryan b above posted this article about a private company near Spokane closing lands to snowmobiles because of tree damage by snowmobile riding out of compliance with the rules-

www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/nov/19/timber-trails-closed/

"Snowmobiling is being prohibited this winter on Inland Empire Paper Company lands at Mount Spokane as well as on the rest of the 116,000 acres the company manages in northeastern Washington and North Idaho.

The decision to end the decades-old welcome comes this week after years of effort to stem damage snowmobilers have inflicted on the commercial timber lands, said Paul Buckland, forest resource manager."

There are visible lines of damaged trees where snowmobiles climb regularly. In the future, this will likely be analyzed and the damage and potential for damage mitigated also on USFS Lands. The Whitebark Pine may be soon listed as endangered. The Whitebark Pine grows in many areas of the Proposal. Stay tuned for what effect that will bring.

There is also the amount of fuel from two stroke engines that goes to the ground- estimated in articles I have read as high as 40%. And it is clearly a myth about four stroke engines used on snowmobles- not to be seen much in use from a practical standpoint at least thus far. That fuel dump problem will come under increased scrutiny in the future. Agreed aaron, one can start with Forest Roads and agree that is likely appropriate for snowmobile use, in the future all other will need to be justified. We have made the point that if snomo enthusiasts wish to preserve some good riding, we suggest them being preemptive and study the issues, find out which good areas could be argued to preserve for snomo riding, and realize which areas will have some wildlife/ biological/ hydrologic/ etc issue that will make it tough to argue for dispersed snowmobile riding. As well as consider how to mitigate their effects on other Forest users.

Thanks to ryan b and aaron for good discussion and others also when there is thoughtful discussion.

The recent article about the Wenatchee Mountains Coalition Proposal offers discussion of many topics referred here -

www.justgetout.net/Wenatchee/21163

Some of our supporters ask that we encourage those interested to email us, since they are not interested in this forum discussion and think others as well are not.

Thanks.

WMC, while I can find truth in every statement you make, what isn't said makes each a lie by omission, when certain facts supporting a cause are not balanced by all the data or anecdotal evidence.

I'll come back and post more later explaining my point as I am running out of time this AM.

aaron_wright, I can see your point.