WMC Update 2012

Who here would support motorized used of Morse Creek?

The Welsh?

Being that I am the bastard step-child of the back country community(snowboarder and occasional sledder) here is my two cents. It seems very arrogant to say that snowmobilers don't care about how they affect the environment they use, all the people I ride with are very responsible outdoor enthusiasts. They are not out destroying vegetation, chasing skiers down, leaving beer cans all over the mountain, etc. In my opinion there are just as many a-hole skiers and boarders as there are 'bilers. Instead of trying to divide the different BC groups we should try and work together. Work with the WA snowmobiling assoc. to self police the non-motorized areas and how to safely ride around skiers and snowshoers and in turn don't be a dick when you see 'bilers in the backcountry (yes, this has happened to me). If it wasn't for the snowmobile lobbyist we wouldn't have as many snowparks and roads plowed as we have now.

If we do create more non motorized areas, I hate it when snowshoers walk in the skin track, so we should ban snowshoers from those areas as well .

Aren't sled-free or wilderness buffer zones going to be a tough political sell in most cases, given that the sled heads seem more numerous and so far, better organized than backcountry skiers.  Even with bigger budgets and better equipment, it's hard to imagine ever having enough law enforcement on the snow to keep up with snowmobiling's rate of growth, even if no-go areas or buffer zones are achieved.

Wilderness boundary law enforcement and motorized closures might be much improved if State and federal agencies required permanently mounted vehicle tracking GPS technology for off-road machines such as sleds & ATVs.  Maybe it could be sold to the manufacturers as a safety/navigation aid?

I'm lucky to now live next to a National Park, but I spent a lot of time in southern BC, and Cookie is right, most places outside their Parks were tracked out, even decades ago.  Though it's not as overun as the east side of the Cascades, a friend here refers to the Gifford Pinchot NF (southern WA) as 'Snowmobile National Park'.  I hear sled & ATV incursions are pretty common in both the Goat Rocks and Mt. Adams wildernesses.  I'm also curious how that new sled-free corridor at St Helens is working out?

Even areas supposedly dedicated to skiing may not be very quiet.  Several experienced locals have called the Mount Tahoma huts "a snowmobile club posing as a ski trail system", because of all the 'grooming' and very frequent service runs to the huts by insiders.   

Anyone here who hasn't read "snowandmud.com" should head right on over. Is this the future we want?

www.snowandmud.com/forum/f14/mmm8-invita...tlegar-bc-30234.html

In my opinion there are just as many a-hole skiers and boarders as there are 'bilers.

This may well be true. IMO, this, as well as Cookie Monster's rant about fat slobs who don't care about the outdoors (which I'm going to bet is a bit off the mark, but even if it's not...) is beside the point. I've had snowmobilers gun their machines so as to spray me as they passed by and then give the finger as they drove past (and it's quite possible that this was due to some idiot skier giving them the finger in the past, which I strongly request my fellow skiers refrain from doing, as I don't think it helps matters one bit), but this has nothing to do with why I'm sympathetic to the general cause presented in the OP. Most 'bilers I've met out there have been quite courteous, and I'm sure would even have been willing to divert from their plans for the day if a member of our group were injured and could benefit from a ride out (fortunately, we've never needed such assistance). But indeed, as machines have grown more powerful since the mid-90's, I've seen their increasing ability to rapidly track out terrain, even in the woods. I'm sure that in most cases, this was being done by folks who I'd be happy to live next door to. No, to me it's not about who has the most pure way of enjoying the outdoors, nor about who is the nicest - it's simply about finding a practical way to give everyone a reasonable share of usable terrain in our public recreational lands. You would not put a skate park on the same patch of pavement as a basketball court and expect it to work well...

This may well be true. IMO, this, as well as Cookie Monster's rant about fat slobs who don't care about the outdoors (which I'm going to bet is a bit off the mark, but even if it's not...) is beside the point. I've had snowmobilers gun their machines so as to spray me as they passed by and then give the finger as they drove past (and it's quite possible that this was due to some idiot skier giving them the finger in the past, which I strongly request my fellow skiers refrain from doing, as I don't think it helps matters one bit), but this has nothing to do with why I'm sympathetic to the general cause presented in the OP. Most 'bilers I've met out there have been quite courteous, and I'm sure would even have been willing to divert from their plans for the day if a member of our group were injured and could benefit from a ride out (fortunately, we've never needed such assistance). But indeed, as machines have grown more powerful since the mid-90's, I've seen their increasing ability to rapidly track out terrain, even in the woods. I'm sure that in most cases, this was being done by folks who I'd be happy to live next door to. No, to me it's not about who has the most pure way of enjoying the outdoors, nor about who is the nicest - it's simply about finding a practical way to give everyone a reasonable share of usable terrain in our public recreational lands. You would not put a skate park on the same patch of pavement as a basketball court and expect it to work well...

It's funny you use the skate park analogy. Many skate parks also exclude bmx bikes and this topic has the same feel.

From the wilderness boundary skiers have no competition but each other, if sledders are in there, they should be reported and hopefully prosecuted as the law would state. The rest of the area is "shared". To what limit would you exclude another form of winter recreation? Where do you put the boudary? And when does the next closest area to parking become the new "honey hole" that needs to have new exclusions in the future? It's a pandora's box as us sledders have seen with the continued restrictions of land/shared use in many areas.

Educating the ignorant about avalanche danger, wilderness boundary, leave no trace by picking up your and others trash and shared area etiquite are topics that most of the sledders I know bring to a conversation each time we are faced with a new group of riders not following the unwritten code. Why exclude me or the hundreds of other enthusiasts I know that follow the code? I want the untouched pow just as much as yourself, what makes you more or less entitled to this fluff?