WMC Update 2012

I'm going to agree with the others here, none of us really have no more right to the snow then the next person, it's like demanding your right to skin uphill on a open run at a resort because it's FS land. There is plenty of land in the Cascades for all to use without conflict.

Yes, please study the map and see the few areas where snowmobiles are not allowed on the general Forest. Why should snowmobiles be allowed on 75% of the non-wilderness Forest? Study the non-Wilderness areas where one skis but does not see snowmobiles, and then realize that the day may come sooner than one anticipates that snowmobiles will find a way to get on your powder stash. We have watched this very thing occur for many years.

Day by day in winter more and more snow is tracked by snowmobiles, in more and more new areas. Increasingly it is done at the expense of skiers and there no longer remains much to go around. Snowmobile riders want powder just as skiers do.

There is more demand than there is supply, and skiers (etc) have been allocated very little of the Forest. Again, we seek parity of non-motorized use areas with motorized use areas.

What's the source of that figure ?

Can you please state the number of areas and acreage outside Wilderness that is designated as non-motorized, and also the same for snowmobile riding? Thanks.

Yes, please study the map and it will show the majority of the Forest is unrestricted for snowmobile use. To reply, why do snowmobile riders need 75% of  non-wilderness Forest in Washington for their use?

Thanks, good comments!

Now there's a clever reply. I like it, and its a good argument but as someone once " statistics, damn statistics."
The problem with your statistic ( and you know it) is that much of the land you say is available for snowmobile access is NOT because the terrain is too steep or forested for motorized access. It is however accessible by non-motorized users who can navigate the rugged terrain and tight trees.
Your argument could actually be used against you:
If you determine the actual area that could be reasonably be used by snowmobilers even with their increased performance and compare it to the areas that can be reached by hikers, climbers and skiers, you will find a completely different statistic ( if you are being fair).
This would lead one to the conclusion that areas that can reasonably be reached and enjoyed by snowmobile skiers is quite a small percentage of the whole and probably in line with the demographics  of non-motorized versus motorized and would then suggest these areas need to be protected for use by motorized users.

Can you please state the number of areas and acreage outside Wilderness that is designated as non-motorized, and also the same for snowmobile riding? Thanks.

www.parks.wa.gov/winter/trails/?TrailType=motorized

The problem with your statistic ( and you know it) is that much of the land you say is available for snowmobile access is NOT because the terrain is too steep or forested for motorized access. It is however accessible by non-motorized users who can navigate the rugged terrain and tight trees.

This too is a misleading argument.

Both motorized and non-motorized users prefer to play in open, alpine country.

It's true that motorized use is constrained by tight forest. But that's not where they want to play. They want to play in the alpine, same as skiers. And as long as they have one navigable corridor into the alpine, then the entire alpine is open to them. It doesn't matter how far the corridor is from the play area. Snowmobiles are not limited by distance.

I've seen snowmobile tracks in places (like the south shoulder of Silver Peak) where I thought they could never get. But they did, somehow. It just takes one corridor, and I imagine that the more challenging the access, the more fun it is for them.

This thread needs this....

www.deschutesbrewery.com/brews/seasonal-...ir-nwpa/default.aspx