WMC Update 2012

This is a new, more general post topic into which I'm moving the two open Wilderness Boundary threads by WMC and Scotsman. Carry on.

Well it does no matter how you spin it. Snomobilers can't go into non-motorized areas without breaking the law but skiers CAN go into motorized access areas, so there IS exclusion of one group.
If you are promoting the concept of parity based upon no skiers, hikers or climbers in motorized areas and the areas designated fairly based upon demographics, quality areas for both and then I'm right with you as that's fair. BUT you aren't.

Your arguments , at least to me, make it very clear that what you want is for the snowmobile to be constricted to an access vehicle and not allowed into  the powder skiing area to track up the slope. Whenever you mention that your group uses snowmobiles you emphasis the word "for access" inferring that they only be used to get to a buffer zone or a "parking" area.  This is your agenda

You are absolutely right, the new machines are changing the game but your approach to just ask the USFS to simply designate more areas based upon a letter writing campaign without a proper study to determine fairness to both sides is wrong (but you're entitled to try, and I respect that).

Me, I'm getting one and will be in your stash soon.

No, sorry but we disagree. We are asking for a significant area well suited for non-motorized winter recreation. It is small compared to adjacent areas which have miles of open slopes that will remain for snowmobiles. We are not trying to restrict snowmobiles to roads or have blanket restrictions on snowmobiles.

The Project advocates only for designated non-motorized areas. WMC has no interest in prohibition or regulation of snowmobiles outside of designated non-motorized winter recreation areas.

Thanks for the great discussion.

I don't want to deny snowmobilers that experience. As I wrote in my initial post in this thread, the key question is where do you draw the buffer zones.

To reiterate the question that I asked before, how many of us think that snowmobile access to Heather/Skyline Ridge at Stevens Pass is appropriate? Let's see a show of hands. If you think snowmobiles should not go there, because it is such an accessible non-wilderness location used by skiers, then you are in favor of the non-wilderness buffer principle. So my question (which WMC is asking as well) is where else should we create these buffers?

I agree with you in that location. Heather/Skyline should be banned for snowmobile access especially so near a resort area.

Now will you agree that to be fair, some areas should likewise be reserved for snowmobilers only so that they are free from the scorn, possibility of biped collision and having to share their area with skinners and hikers.. seems only fair.

I agree with you in that location. Heather/Skyline should be banned for snowmobile access especially so near a resort area.

Now will you agree that to be fair, some areas should likewise be reserved for snowmobilers only so that they are free from the scorn, possibility of biped collision and having to share their area with skinners and hikers.. seems only fair.

Yes, a valid point, but another topic.

WMC is asking for designated non-motorized areas for winter recreation, since relatively few exist in comparison to the total Forest that is easily accessed from the car, or from a snowmobile that was parked. Outside of non-motorized areas of the Forest, we are not trying to prohibit snowmobiles or regulate their use. We are asking skiers and winter recreationists to support this first attempt to obtain a more equitable share of the Forest suitable for skiing. We specified our request in an area that we know well. To follow this, we would support such efforts for other suitable areas.

I don't want to deny snowmobilers that experience. As I wrote in my initial post in this thread, the key question is where do you draw the buffer zones.

To reiterate the question that I asked before, how many of us think that snowmobile access to Heather/Skyline Ridge at Stevens Pass is appropriate? Let's see a show of hands. If you think snowmobiles should not go there, because it is such an accessible non-wilderness location used by skiers, then you are in favor of the non-wilderness buffer principle. So my question (which WMC is asking as well) is where else should we create these buffers?

Thank you for insightful comments! We see this as a start, this model was created for advocacy for a multitude of reasons. We need broad support from skiers and winter non-motorized Forest users. We are asking for individual citizens to make the case. We believe that there is a great need for more non-motorized winter recreation areas on the Forest, for all of the reasons that WMC has discussed above.

Thanks for the great discussion!

WMC, I know of what you speak. Back at Sunpeaks the backcountry was very limited and though there was supposed to be a non-motorized area adjacent the ski area, sledders would routinely track up our entire skiable backcountry in a couple of hours. Non-enforcement sucked for us.

Where I live now (Terrace) the area is huge. Many of the backcountry ski community have sleds, there's plenty of terrain for everyone, but even so - the backcountry community formed a society giving voice to non-motorized users. We've sat in on land use planning meetings and have negotiated with a heliski firm on tenure boundaries. There needs to be a voice to non-motorized users, it doesn't need to be confrontational and there should be enough terrain for everybody.

The society I'm in is called the Mount Remo Backcountry Society if you want to check us out and what our mandate is.
Signed,
a skier who jumps on a sled occasionally because it makes a 25km logging road approach do-able.