WMC Update 2012

The budget for the 'Snowmobile Account' - administered by state parks to run the snowmobile focused pieces of the snow park system - was about $4.5MM over the last biennium. That money comes from user fees (snowmobile registrations) and a pro-rata share of the gas tax, as I'm sure many of you know. The gas tax support accounted for just under $2MM of the $4.5MM total.

I believe the gas tax money is based off of sled registrations, as this is money that is paid as taxes on gasoline that is not used on the roads or highways. It is a reimbursement, if you will, to snowmobilers that have paid the gas tax for filling up their snowmobiles.

Just trying to clarify where it comes from, it isn't free money. Snowmobilers pay this money via the gasoline tax for their sleds.

"The vast majority of the 400,000 acres (of public land) in Kittitas County are available to snowmobiles"- a past quote in the local paper from Todd Stiles of USFS Cle Elum. The current Tronsen Non-Motorized Area, primo skiing, appears to be about four sections or around 2500 acres (in Chelan Co, bordering Kittitas Co). What would be the total of all of the Designated and Voluntary Non-Motorized areas in Kittitas County- 10,000 or 15,000 acres?

The WMC Executive has eyeball estimated roughly that the Teanaway crest Wilderness Boundary portion of our proposal at around 20, 500 acres, and the Blewett to Mission portion at around 5800 acres.

Figures posted here previously place the number of snowmobile riders in WA at 35,000, and the number of skiers and snowshoers at 151,000.

Simply put out the Wenatchee NF map and observe all of the area to the south of the Wenatchee mountains crest open to snowmobiling, that could not covered on that map by outstretched hands, compared to the primo-skiing Wenatchee Mountains crest area at Tronsen Non-Motorized area at Blewett Pass- which on the map would be covered by a Quarter coin.

What the Wenatchee Mountains Coalition (WMC) asks for is parity. There are significant numbers of non-motorized winter recreationalists, yet the non-wilderness portion of the Wenatchee National Forest allows a disproportionate amount of the Forest to be monopolized by one use - snowmobiles. We do not wish to prohibit snowmobiles on the Forest (some of us are also snowmobilers), but because motorized and non-motorized uses are incompatible on the same terrain, we ask for more non-motorized terrain. We invite all winter recreationalists to share their thoughts about this issue and this need with the Forest Supervisor and Forest Planning Team.

You use numbers for the entire state, what about the breakdown for just the county, since that is what you are trying to exploit. The numbers for snowmobiles are derived from the registration os sleds, how are the numbers for the non-motorized developed?

Of the acreage you describe, is any of it wilderness? the 400k? Are all 400k acres useable winter recreation territory? All 400k can be used by non-motorized, but not all can be used by sleds. of simply the bean=beverly non-motorized area, it's been stated on this site, that it could not be used up with all the skiers that could fit in the parking lot, do you disagree?

Additionally. what location do you see as equal acreage of similar terrain to your proposal of closure to sledding for snowmobiling? Again, the treed valleys are not desirable to either sport...

And do you stop at this closure, or grow it further?

The numbers of skiers and snowshoers in WA are stated here to outnumber registered snowmobiles by 15100 to 35000, Using that as a ratio, look at the map and consider some quoted and rough estimate numbers.

"The vast majority of the 400,000 acres (of public land) in Kittitas County are available to snowmobiles"- a past quote in the local paper from Todd Stiles of USFS Cle Elum. The current Tronsen Non-Motorized Area, primo skiing, appears to be about four sections or around 2500 acres (in Chelan Co, bordering Kittitas Co). What would be the total of all of the Designated and Voluntary Non-Motorized areas in Kittitas County- 10,000 or 15,000 acres?

The WMC Executive has eyeball estimated roughly that the Teanaway crest Wilderness Boundary portion of our proposal at around 20, 500 acres, and the Blewett to Mission portion at around 5800 acres.

Figures posted here previously place the number of snowmobile riders in WA at 35,000, and the number of skiers and snowshoers at 151,000.

Simply put out the Wenatchee NF map and observe all of the area to the south of the Wenatchee mountains crest open to snowmobiling, that could not covered on that map by outstretched hands, compared to the primo-skiing Wenatchee Mountains crest area at Tronsen Non-Motorized area at Blewett Pass- which on the map would be covered by a Quarter coin.

What the Wenatchee Mountains Coalition (WMC) asks for is parity. There are significant numbers of non-motorized winter recreationalists, yet the non-wilderness portion of the Wenatchee National Forest allows a disproportionate amount of the Forest to be monopolized by one use - snowmobiles. We do not wish to prohibit snowmobiles on the Forest (some of us are also snowmobilers), but because motorized and non-motorized uses are incompatible on the same terrain, we ask for more non-motorized terrain. We invite all winter recreationalists to share their thoughts about this issue and this need with the Forest Supervisor and Forest Planning Team.

Figures posted here previously place the number of snowmobile riders in WA at 35,000, and the number of skiers and snowshoers at 151,000.

Is the 151,000 number limited to backcountry skiers plus snowshoers? Counting resort skiers when discussing the expected use of backcountry terrain would be like counting mall walkers when estimating the need for hiking trails.

The disparity between areas open to snowmobiles compared to the areas for winter non-motorized use is quite striking. The numbers are posted here by another poster, but 151000 was posted as backcountry Forest users, the topic of this thread. Do you believe that there are more snowmobile riders who use the Forest than skiers? All reasonable data and considerations indicate more non-motorized users.

WMC is asking for a small piece of the total for skiers, there is no compromise being shown in return, even from a formal organization that has sent a letter. WMC is not asking to prohibit or limit snowmobiles outside of non-motorized areas that are very insignificant acreage in the total. Conversely here the opposition appears to acknowledge little need to accommodate the needs of other users except to allow skiers (etc) to travel in the trail of snowmobile fumes and stumble along snow rutted by snowmobiles. Multiple use of thew Forest, sharing, compromise would allow skiers and other uses on a pristine snowy Forest.

So again, look at the map, estimate some simple figures, see the dominance of one use, snowmobile riding on the Forest.

The disparity between areas open to snowmobiles compared to the areas for winter non-motorized use is quite striking. The numbers are posted here by another poster, but 151000 was posted as backcountry Forest users, the topic of this thread. Do you believe that there are more snowmobile riders who use the Forest than skiers? All reasonable data and considerations indicate more non-motorized users.

Meaning you don't care where the number came from as long as it helps your point? lol

Kind of like the FS quote? Even though it doesn't take into consideration wilderness?

I want parity of ALL AVAILABLE ALPINE AREAS for snowmobile usage. WMC, what do you say to that?

The number of snowmobiler users stated are REGISTERED snowmobile users only. Sadly, many snowmobilers fail to register their snowmobiles out of some ill perceived notion that their money is not well spent. Though, it just hurts the funding for our sport.

As to the 151k skiers. I think that should be in question. When I go to snoparks, it looks like snowmobilers out number skiers 2-1 at least.