WMC Update 2012

I'm going to agree with the others here, none of us really have no more right to the snow then the next person, it's like demanding your right to skin uphill on a open run at a resort because it's FS land. There is plenty of land in the Cascades for all to use without conflict.

I don't think Good2go is confused about WMC intentions, and wilderness designation does not guarantee even foot powered access, as exclusions and restrictions may apply.  While I generally agree with the pragmatism of G2G and Toby, I don't think WMC is wrong to suggest, as has been discussed for many decades, that public land be managed for multiple uses, including the exclusion of use by certain categories that detract from the use of others.  There are many, many areas that are micro managed for or against motorized traffic, and we should all be encouraged to cast our sway.  I would note that policy is not written by a Supervisory Office (like Wenatchee) but implementation is affected there at the margins.  The same would be true of the Regional Office (like R-6, Portland).  Then one realizes that the head office in Wa. DC is a bit tone deaf, and in any event USDA (USFS) and USDI (BLM/NPS) are not obligated to agree.  The two directions that matter are, one, the sensible and mannered requests of the SO and RO to continue to measure and manage, and sometimes cordon off compatible and non-compatible uses of our land, and two, seeking Congressional influence (write, own, or get elected).  My experience is that bureaucrats have  pressure coming from all directions, and that mass matters.  So do manners, well reasoned arguments, and often to our dissatisfaction, even, and especially, compromise.

But some people don't want to ski-tour from a snowmobile, they want to use the snowmobile to reach the top and either "ghost ride" it down and do laps or go tandem and take turns. You are right the increased performance of snowmobiles is changing the game. Snowmobile skiing using the snowmobiles to get to the top  of the run and not just as a road and pass access vehicle is an increasing and exciting aspect of the sport. There is a whole lot of area out there for both to occur and if you happen to be both in the same area, legally, tough luck. Why do you need more and more areas for your chosen mode of travel at the expense of theirs?

Again WMC are not asking for any general prohibition against snowmobiles on general Forest. Currently there are few non-motorized areas on the general Forest in comparison to the total. After additional non-motorized areas are established outside of them skiers may 'ghost ride' etc. in the motorized-allowable areas which will continue to have greater area. My observations, however, is that snowmobile riders want the same powder, and will not leave any for someone wanting to ski- they are not required to do so, so it is their right to track all of the snow. We are asking for more areas for non-motorized winter recreation. Yes, please study the map and it will show the majority of the Forest is unrestricted for snowmobile use. To reply, why do snowmobile riders need 75% of  non-wilderness Forest in Washington for their use?

Thanks, good comments!

why do snowmobile riders need 75% of  non-wilderness Forest in Washington for their use?

What's the source of that figure ?

Why is this a sticky?

One can only infer that the owners of this website agree with the aims of this group.
Not that there's anything wrong with that as any privately owned media outlet or website has the right to promote whatever agenda they agree with. I mean look at Rupert Murdoch and Fox news!
Never thought I'd compare Fox News to TAY but there you have it. Ha Ha.

I sympathize with the "enforce wilderness boundaries" argument but I don't think it is adequate the address this problem. Messy compromises will be needed.

I haven't studied WMC's proposals enough to have an opinion about them. But I agree with the concept of creating non-motorized buffer zones between plowed roads and designated wilderness areas. The big question is where to draw the lines.

To make my case that such buffer zones are needed, I refer everybody to this 2006 thread about snowmobiles on Heather/Skyline ridge above Stevens Pass:

www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...dex.php?topic=3871.0

If anybody thinks this is an appropriate place for snowmobiles, I'd like to hear it. (I seriously doubt that anybody does.) So, if you agree that Heather/Skyline ridge is inappropriate for snowmobiles, then you agree with the buffer concept in principle. The big question, then, is where else should these buffers be created?