TR Replies
nice one sol and chris - see you spiced up the ascent line too ;-)
So sorry you got hurt! Proud of you for skiing out with the injury. Ug, speedy recovery to you.
Green with envy, just getting out and seeing the other side of the mountain. We really had a great time there last year, and thought Mt Shasta (the town) was a great place as well.
Thanks for the TR. Awesome, inspiring vid!
Of course it is a full-on terrain trap. Would not want to go into the area with out fulling sussing the situation for "green".
Still looks like the area is worth the drive.
Thanks for the post Silas--most excellent for heads up!
Still looks like the area is worth the drive.
Thanks for the post Silas--most excellent for heads up!
Here's some handy info, and great thought process writeup:
http://utahavalanchecenter.org/blog-terminal-cancer
http://utahavalanchecenter.org/blog-terminal-cancer
A couple of updates to Jtack's already great report:
20 April report: There is a lot of avy debris and those deep foot steps up the couloir which has been frozen and softened many times. So, the snow was soft -ish but not great skiing right now. You can boot right to the top but you can ski from about ten feet below the top due to rocks at the beginning. Photo of rocks at top.
20 April report: There is a lot of avy debris and those deep foot steps up the couloir which has been frozen and softened many times. So, the snow was soft -ish but not great skiing right now. You can boot right to the top but you can ski from about ten feet below the top due to rocks at the beginning. Photo of rocks at top.
WOW THAT LOOKS FANTASTIC AND WELL WORTH THE DRIVE--THANKS...
Oh my, I thought this was THE Dave of yester-yore Yosemite wall climbing- life. That Dave I believe climbed well above 5.9 (what with all those years and laps on El Cap).
I must say that LR trip is quite a read considering said experience. Can't imagine you pulling any more shenanigans after this screw up...
I must say that LR trip is quite a read considering said experience. Can't imagine you pulling any more shenanigans after this screw up...
author=dave095790 link=topic=31441.msg132278#msg132278 date=1398277060] I posted the TR because I thought it was a good piece of ski-mountaineering...
It doesn't appear to me that this was a reckless descent. But was it a good piece of ski mountaineering? That's an interesting question. What is ski mountaineering?
I think of ski mountaineering as a sport in which skis are used in a significant way as tools for travel...
author=silaswild link=topic=31518.msg132173#msg132173 date=1398133237]
Shoulda had some girls on the tour to keep me safe.
True, Silas, we old broads will get you into trouble every time :) At least now I know how to identify you on the mountain. I will look for the older gentleman with the very nice smile and scar face. Hope you heal quickly & well!
How much did that ticket from the NPS set you back? For future reference, a sufficient set of lock picking tools runs $30 - $40, probably less than a third of the cost of that ticket. With a little practice, you can be popping tumblers in no time...
Not that I'd advise using one to open access gates, they're just handy for, uh, you know, like helping people get back into their vehicles when they've locked themselves out and stuff ::)
Not that I'd advise using one to open access gates, they're just handy for, uh, you know, like helping people get back into their vehicles when they've locked themselves out and stuff ::)
Silas, glad you're not hurt worse! I hope you're out there again soon.
Thanks for an example of the dangers of beacons! A stud finder would have been just as bad.
Thanks for an example of the dangers of beacons! A stud finder would have been just as bad.
author=dave095790 link=topic=31441.msg132278#msg132278 date=1398277060">
Conditions for the climb were good. We had no glacier crossing issues, except for one spot on the Winthrop. We never wallowed or post holed on the climb. The ice made for fast, and fairly secure climbing (easily protectable via simul climbing) ... Where are the bad conditions?
The descent, I agree, was not the best of conditions. The other option though was a descent down the...
Ouch.
locks aren't the only thing being cut in this thread.
locks aren't the only thing being cut in this thread.
In non-timed, non-judged activities like ski mountaineering, style matters just as much, if not more, than the objective. The style of your 'ski' is about as bad as it could possibly get. You did it safely and had an adventure, but a little humility and study of the history and ethics of bc skiing and ski mountaineering will do you good.
Dave, I won't put words into Amar's mouth about what he meant, but my first thought on seeing the photos was, "Good effort and adventure, but poor choice of a route under those conditions." I'm not saying you were unsafe or stupid (Amar also didn't use those words - you inferred it). Your TR made it all sound under control. I might have climbed it under those conditions, but would have continued over to the Emmons for the descent (which is what I did many yea...
author=dale_72 link=topic=31441.msg132280#msg132280 date=1398280245]
I'm not going to pretend that I understand how MRNP makes their decision's, but from what I've seen living here my whole life is they'll make problems for access with no attempt to fix it.
fixed it for you.
author=dale_72 link=topic=26113.msg110347#msg110347 date=1353262048]
MRNP is horribl...
Dave, I don't think anyone really cares that you climbed up and down Liberty with skies on your back, I saw no evidence that you did anything more than that. Maybe in your excitement to ski multiple pitches of pure water ice you forgot to pull the camera out? If I were you I'd be talking less about your climb, and more about what your planning on doing to rectify what you did with the park. I'm not going to pretend that I understand how MRNP makes their decision&...
Conditions for the climb were good. We had no glacier crossing issues, except for one spot on the Winthrop. We never wallowed or post holed on the climb. The ice made for fast, and fairly secure climbing (easily protectable via simul climbing) ... Where are the bad conditions?
The descent, I agree, was not the best of conditions. The other option though was a descent down the Emmons, which was not the route we climbed, and thus would have little familiarity with. The conditions on t...
The descent, I agree, was not the best of conditions. The other option though was a descent down the Emmons, which was not the route we climbed, and thus would have little familiarity with. The conditions on t...
I think I gotta break this down for myself somehow to avoid hopeless confusion
Lawful Good: only enters the park according to strict, unquestioned NPS guidelines; always parks car at the gate (even if it's open) and walks in
Neutral Good: enters the park completely at will at any time; leaves no trace
Chaotic Good: spike strips
Lawful Evil: NPS ski junkie, always has the keys and a federally issued sno-mo to approach camp
Neutral Evil: cuts lock, high-marks ev...
Lawful Good: only enters the park according to strict, unquestioned NPS guidelines; always parks car at the gate (even if it's open) and walks in
Neutral Good: enters the park completely at will at any time; leaves no trace
Chaotic Good: spike strips
Lawful Evil: NPS ski junkie, always has the keys and a federally issued sno-mo to approach camp
Neutral Evil: cuts lock, high-marks ev...
Glad to hear you made it out on your feet, Silas! Hope you heal up quickly.
Here is a vid from the day
http://youtu.be/ThzIES6yCAw
Here is a vid from the day
http://youtu.be/ThzIES6yCAw
Good luck Silas. Hope you are ready for the spring-skiing-lap-sitting-season in June.
Ahhh Silas, you crazy dude! Next we'll see you in the terrain park with your doo rag! Hope the ribs are healing - lucky you have some Nurse Betty's in your household to take care of you! As for touring Betty's, I'll happily senior sit at anytime! As long as I don't bust in on the bromance between you and Timbat!
author=aaron_wright link=topic=31441.msg132254#msg132254 date=1398218472]
You should still be in jail.
The legal positivism is strong with this one.
Just another sign of the times I suppose. Ego factor prevails again.
Flaunt rules, cut bolt on gate, then chest beat on several websites. Charming.
Flaunt rules, cut bolt on gate, then chest beat on several websites. Charming.
author=hedonaut link=topic=31441.msg132221#msg132221 date=1398200415]
Like Sky, I'm just curious--about this, as well as what motivated someone to "ski" that line in that condition.
Perhaps the answer to that question can be found in this post: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/moving-to-everett-wa/107665376
By Dave Schultz
From Everett, Washington
Jun 19, 2012
^^^^^That the whole situation was over-hyped, over-blown and really not that big a deal....well-handled by the FS, IMO.
I cant even imagine doing something like that knowing the impact it could have on access for everyone.
POOR FORM!
POOR FORM!
Jack: Well, then, I confess: It is my intention to commandeer one of these ships, pick up a crew in Tortuga, raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer me weaselly black guts out.
Murtogg: I said no lies!
Mullroy: I think he's telling the truth.
Murtogg: If he were telling the truth, he wouldn't have told us.
Jack: Unless of course he knew you wouldn't believe the truth, even if he told you.
Jail would be a bit harsh and expensive, it's more the sentiment. They basically got away with a slap on the wrist. I see this as a slap in the face to sledders and bc skiers as a group, it gives us all a bad name.
What if everyone decided to bend or break the law just because they really wanted to do something and had been planning on it? I'd love to ride my mtb in parts of the Wilderness, should I just go ahead and do it? After all having some of those trails closed to bi...
What if everyone decided to bend or break the law just because they really wanted to do something and had been planning on it? I'd love to ride my mtb in parts of the Wilderness, should I just go ahead and do it? After all having some of those trails closed to bi...
author=aaron_wright link=topic=31441.msg132246#msg132246 date=1398215392]
These guys should be in jail.
I thought if someone did something disagreeable in this country we just took them out back and shot them? ::)
Thanks for the snow report. You are quite the dapper pair in your spring outfits ;D
I hope there will be something left in June. Did you see Thielson or Crater Lake in your wanders?
I hope there will be something left in June. Did you see Thielson or Crater Lake in your wanders?
jail huh? you'd rather pay ~$128/day as a taxpayer to have him in jail? Certainly cutting down multiple trees in the north cascades should warrant lots of 'jail' if cutting a $5 lock does.
What is the rationale behind having a road gated in the middle of winter? Or closed when there isn't avalanche risk.. ::)
If someone rode around into glacier basin or into wilderness area i would be irate, and am when they do (mt. Adams...Badger creek wilderness...
What is the rationale behind having a road gated in the middle of winter? Or closed when there isn't avalanche risk.. ::)
If someone rode around into glacier basin or into wilderness area i would be irate, and am when they do (mt. Adams...Badger creek wilderness...
Nice set of 11s off of your take off! If only you could have stomped it! Maybe don't go for the Daffy-Quad twister- Spread eagle next time? Get well soon, so we can go back up there and get a shot of you in the air ;) KAW!
author=jwplotz link=topic=31441.msg132232#msg132232 date=1398207370]
Isn't Dave a federal employee? I wonder how that factors into his decision, if at all?
Maybe he's a SEAL and has his get out of jail free card?!
author=dave095790 link=topic=31441.msg132248#msg132248 date=1398215927]
"Snowmobiles are permitted on the 12-mile section of unplowed road from the north park boundary on Highway 410 to the White River Campground. Snowmobiles may not continue on Hwy 410 south of the White River Road turnoff. They are also prohibited from proceeding beyond the closure at the White River Campground road junction towards Sunrise. Snowmobiles must stay on the road corridor; t...
It all started out so well ...
The Gunsight
The Choke
This is what happens when you ski without your senior sitters man!
Note ski track leading to take-off point
The Gunsight
The Choke
This is what happens when you ski without your senior sitters man!
Note ski track leading to take-off point
Getting Cliffed out was the best part. As many of us have some understanding of questionable plans getting worse we fully understand that getting out the rope to rap a gulley in the rain was merely a fun diversion from the "good booting"
author=aaron_wright link=topic=31441.msg132246#msg132246 date=1398215392]
Snowmobiles are only allowed on 410 until the White River Rd. not allowed past or on the White River Rd. These guys should be in jail.
"Snowmobiles are permitted on the 12-mile section of unplowed road from the north park boundary on Highway 410 to the White River Campground. Snowmobiles may not continue on Hwy 410 south of the White River Road turnoff....
Get well soon Silas! There is still skiing to be done ;)
author=hedonaut link=topic=31441.msg132242#msg132242 date=1398213952]
Thanks for the info. and entertaining replies. Good points all. Didn't know that snowmobile access was allowed, then temporarily cut off during the spring--interesting. Back to my apples.
Snowmobiles are only allowed on 410 until the White River Rd. not allowed past or on the White River Rd. These guys should be in jail.
author=aaron_wright link=topic=31441.msg132240#msg132240 date=1398213166]
So what's the story with the gate on Eightmile?
I'm not sure what the story is. But, if you will feel better about everything, I will take credit for it. Let's move on.
That is a beautiful ridge! Thanks for the TR.
Thanks for the info. and entertaining replies. Good points all. Didn't know that snowmobile access was allowed, then temporarily cut off during the spring--interesting. Back to my apples.
author=Alex L link=topic=31441.msg132236#msg132236 date=1398209251]
Yeah, we saw a few big avalanches rip down the Willis Wall and few down the Liberty Wall. Quite the sight, and you can hear them before you see them, so for a few frantic seconds you hope that it's not coming down on top of you (not that it would, since you are climbing a ridge). The only thing that moved near us was maybe a few pebbles above Thumb Rock, and trying to dodge the dinner p...
author=Charlie Hagedorn link=topic=31441.msg132211#msg132211 date=1398190091]
It would appear that they did: https://plus.google.com/photos/+AlexLeone/albums/6002308739623361137/6002308748986636850
Yeah, we saw a few big avalanches rip down the Willis Wall and few down the Liberty Wall. Quite the sight, and you can hear them before you see them, so for a few frantic seconds you hope that it's not coming down on top of you (n...