Avalanches on Red and Granite

double YOUR speculation and raise you!
Maybe these meetup sites need to be made aware of avy risks and links to NWAC then. I'm sure they have lawyer who'd like to make sure they don't get sued in the future 

A lot the meetup groups have some sort of waiver text that folks have to read in order to join...

But waivers don't really matter -- as I understand it (not lawyer), in the USA -- you can't really sign away your right to sue, nor can you sign away the rights of your heirs to sue. And certainly in the case on Red Mtn -- since the woman wasn't part of the group and was travelling alone -- her estate could sue.

But as non-lawyer -- it seems like it would be a long stretch to prove that members of the other group were grossly negligent and importantly significantly more negligent than the unfortunate woman.

Shit...I hate agreeing with TE.

I have a question...that 13 member group of snowshoers?...where they part of an organized group or club? Seems like a large number if only an ad hoc group of individuals.

Just checking in on this thread from time to time.  Want to mention that there is still a ongoing mission for the missing hiker up Granite.  The wife of the missing has been at the trailhead waiting on closure.  I'd respectfully ask this be considered when contributing to this thread. 

For clarity, there are three separate groups involved here.  On Red, there was a solo snowshoer and group of 12 shoeshoers.  The solo showshoer was found/unburied by the group of 12 and then transported by SAR members.  The solo showshoer did not recovery from the injuries of the burial.  On Granite, there were three hikers (not snowshoers) all caught in a slide.  Two walked away and one is still missing. The news does a great job on the details for both these incidents. 

As mentioned, there is still and ongoing mission to recover the missing hiker.  Both incidents will have extensive write-ups submitted to NWAC for all to benefit from.  No need to hash that out now untll all the facts are put in one place.  At present, the SAR resources are focused on the Granite missing hiker.

Wow, that's really unfortunate. It seems like a simple solution would be to get some tape that says something like "Search And Rescue In Progress." Then people would be much less likely to remove it. (Of course, it would be the responsibility of the SAR teams to remove it when they're done.)

That's what I was thinking. Cairns, tat, and tape seem as likely to be left by disoriented people as by people who knew where they were going. I tend to leave cairns but remove tape and tat as litter/garbage. So two things: 1. Get something that indicates it's been left by SAR/MR and should not be removed and, 2. Remove it when you're done so it doesn't become litter.

Yes, marked tape would have been nice, but it is not what was available that day. I am looking at what it would take to get some but some marked tape but that may be cost prohibitive. On the other hand, like was stated, if it was left by someone that was disoriented why remove it? I shook a lot of snow off many of the trees I placed it on which would indicate that it was freshly placed there, again, reason not too remove it. We try to clean up after ourselves as much as we can but that isn't the first thing on our mind when we are searching for someone or trying to get someone out. the tape I keep in my pack as part of my emergency kit, which is what was used, my personal gear, is biodegradable also which although might take a while, it will eventually go away if we miss it, I take comfort in that, knowing that it will not forever litter the landscape.

Anyways, I do what I can to keep our forests clean, as I'm sure many people do. I guess what I am asking is if you didn't put it there and it doesn't look all too old, please leave it. It isn't a lot to ask, if you get there one week and it is there and the next week still there, then yes, tear it down..

The attitude we got from the person seemed to be not too happy about the situation, well we are sorry to inconvenience them.. Accidents can happen to ANYONE and we would do all we could to get them out as quick as possible, I bet they would not be upset if a few flags were placed if that is what was needed..

Good luck to all those individuals searching for the person on Granite Mountain!

Thank you for your answer..... if a club then that is certainly one area where avy awareness information and training could be concentrated.
Do the Mountaineer's tweet or send out any information relating to current avy danger? Does NWHikers have an avy link like TAY?

The Mountaineer's tend to lead trips with very experienced (and somewhat paranoid) leaders, and a wide range of participants (from complete novices to experienced people). I've heard about some of the leaders checking everyone for the ten essentials for a late summer trip on a crowded trail. In short, I don't think a Mountaineers led trip would have ventured so close to Red Mountain on Saturday.

In general it can get rather messy in there, with tracks leading everywhere. My guess is that someone went too close to Red Mountain and folks just followed those tracks. It is possible that they knew about the danger, but didn't know where they were. Or it is possible that they didn't know about the danger, which was compounded by a "safety in numbers" myth (that many skiers have succumbed to as well). It is also possible, although highly unlikely, that they knew about the risk, knew where they were, but took a calculated risk to enjoy that area. As someone who has snowshoed and skied quite a bit, I think this is highly unlikely. That is something skiers and snowboarders tend to do way more than snowshoers (especially on a day with very few views).

That's what I was thinking. Cairns, tat, and tape seem as likely to be left by disoriented people as by people who knew where they were going. I tend to leave cairns but remove tape and tat as litter/garbage. So two things: 1. Get something that indicates it's been left by SAR/MR and should not be removed and, 2. Remove it when you're done so it doesn't become litter.

I also usually leave cairns. I leave the flagging tape I see when there is snow on the ground for the reasons already mentioned (unless it looks old and faded by UV I remove it). After the snow melts I consider it as litter and remove it from trails.