Snowmobilers and wilderness

My previous thread about snowmobiler noise use prompted me to think about another question I am curious about.  As before, I would appreciate if we could keep this away from land use / and proposed changes.

So the question is..

"If snowmobilers eliminated all wilderness trespass, no tracks seen, no sleds heard, no nothing, would it have a any impact on your viewpoint about snowmobilers and there activity?" If so, could you quantify or describe the change in viewpoint?

Not, I firmly, strongly, believe that wilderness trespass is inappropriate and should not be tolerated at all.  Just curious as to how much wilderness trespass plays a part in your viewpoint of snowmobilers.

Edit: replaced "significant" with "any" and added secondary question to ask for further clarification of change.

Define "significant." It would give me a less jaded view about what I assume to be a sub-group of bad apples (just as people violating noise limits would support or increase that jaded view). I suppose there are scofflaws in many recreational communities, but with the right tools one can amplify how much their scoffing is noticed.

ruff, I know you are trying to avoid land use issues, but your question is about land use.  Wilderness incursion is what will bring on a potential hammer, but the number of Wilderness-based conflicts is likely far fewer than conflicts in the more easily accessed frontcountry or the less proscriptive areas most frequently used by skiers and sledders.

The irony is that Wilderness in the winter is generally underused by the self-propelled community but potentially easily accessed by the sledders.  So to a majority of skiers, Wilderness is largely aspirational, while the sledders could make short work of the distances that deter most skiers.  There are two very different realities at play here.  The inflexibility of federal land use law frustrates everybody since winter use in its current forms was never treated in the creation of the Wilderness Act (1964) and other Travel Management Plans.   

With some effort a good solution for most skiers and sledders will get done.

Cheers and keep asking good questions!

Eastman, correct on all counts. I agree 100% about the problems with winter use travel management plans. It doesn't make much sense and a large (I would say majority) of back country skiers / snowshoes are excluded from wilderness, except for those that have the vacation / time / or stamina to make it in that far.

What I am trying to focus on are things that snowmobilers are doing / can do with minimal impact to themselves (which makes it easier to accomplish), and to quantify the positive benefits to other back country users.

What I am trying to focus on are things that snowmobilers are doing / can do with minimal impact to themselves (which makes it easier to accomplish), and to quantify the positive benefits to other back country users.

they can make an effort within their own community to educate the few bad examples that ruin it for their own community. that might be a long shot though, but I know if a backcountry skier violated some ski ethic they would get a lashing

...(I would say majority) of back country skiers / snowshoes are excluded from wilderness, except for those that have the vacation / time / or stamina to make it in that far.

this is probably true but regardless I know that motorized wilderness trespassing is a regular occurrence in the Badger Creek Wilderness where I enjoy touring each winter. Last winter I saw sled tracks in the Three Sisters Wilderness....

There is a lot of legal sled terrain they can access, which makes it frustrating when I encounter sleds in the wilderness. As far as sharing the terrain that's legal for sleds it is what is it, as long as they are courteous to other users (many of them are)... doing circles around my tent a couple winters ago left me with a bad taste...

"If snowmobilers eliminated all wilderness trespass, no tracks seen, no sleds heard, no nothing, would it have a any impact on your viewpoint about snowmobilers and their activity?"  If so, could you quantify or describe the change in viewpoint?

The elimination of wilderness trespass would improve my view of snowmobilers. IMO wilderness designation should not be thought of as a recreation or travel management strategy, although it certainly has large consequences for rec and travel. The point of wilderness is preservation. I don't support wilderness b/c it gives me some place to ski where motorized users aren't allowed, I support wilderness b/c I think it is good to have places that aren't developed in the normal way: no roads, buildings, resource extraction, etc. Willful, blatant, and gleeful motorized use of wilderness communicates disrespect of preservation interests and engenders distrust of motorized users. I think an appropriate analog is the defacing of a war memorial or cemetery: when somebody does it you don't trust them with any public resources. The fact that the snowmobile community has a faction that loudly despises wilderness leads me to believe (subjectively) that they may mistreat other public lands as well.

That being said, the eradication of motorized wilderness use would not end my conflict with motorized users by a long shot. But I think it is important to discuss these issues, and I commend ruffy for bringing them up here.