Snowmobilers and wilderness

I'm 400 miles NW of NYC and all is well here. A few drops of rain and 40+ mph winds from the NNW had the waves on Lake Ontario at 5-9' for some fine surfing in 70 degree water for those that dared. Downstate is not so lucky with 11+ inches of rain in a day. Thanks for thinkin.

I guess I'll see when I get there but must be the "snowmobile issue" is how 50% of the skiable wilderness is over run by drunk and crazed 'bilers every weekend.

Seriously, I suspect the issue is how fragile the human senses are when it comes to change. More so when the change is in a way that alters something that is cherished. Change, however is inevitable. I've seen the day when my basic entry ticket allowed me to stand next to Jackie Stewart and his mechanic in the pits at an F1 race. At one time I could smoke on an airplane or in a restaurant without offending anyone. Now you can't smoke on the streets of NYC without someone gagging and calling a cop. As for one man's trash is another man's gold. I recall hiking 3 days into the wilderness and sleeping under the stars on a mountain top. Middle of the night a flight of 5 or so B-52 bombers loaded with nukes flew a few hundred feet over my head on their landing pattern back to their base. THAT WAS AWESOME!!

At one time I could smoke on an airplane or in a restaurant without offending anyone....

Cool: So you ski only in the snowmobile tracks and leave the powder for the rest of us. You'll get used to it .

To answer the original question: it would change that aspect of my opinion of sledding.

I agree with having designated wilderness areas and believe that those boundaries should be respected all year round. I's not a seasonal designation.

People these days seems to have a strongly misguided sense of privilege and entitlement and it bothers me.

There are a lot of trails in wilderness areas that I want to mountain bike during the summer, but I don't. I know that you want to high mark that slope in the wilderness, or access wilderness areas so you can ski there, or whatever. Park your sled at the boundary and skin in.

As I see it; we have made this world a pretty convenient place to be, maybe it's in our interest to embrace the wonderfully slow inconvenience of activity and solitude in the wilderness areas.
Knowing the wilderness boundaries is easy; buy a map.

The only other thing that I can say bothers me about sleds is when they don't give foot traffic respect. Please slow down and give a little bit of space to skinners and shoers. Wave and say "hi", a little friendliness goes a long way (oh, and lose the two stroke as soon as you can afford it!).
Other than that, I'm all for sledding and snowmobile access.

Nothing has been done to prevent snowmobile Wilderness trespass in ALW from Teanaway that has affected it. USFS does not have first-hand information or observation, only information reported to USFS. Efforts by snomo guys to stop snomo Wilderness trespass are commendable, but as shown by even their own effort to call out others, they trespass Wilderness at will without consequence. BTW, in the reporting that I have done for many years no one has ever asked for a signed statement. We are in discussion about how to conduct methodical observation and filming, along with substantial documentation. If there is as little snomo Wilderness trespass as these snomo guys claim, we will not have much to document. BTW, I think these snomo guys posting have never been in the area of the Teanaway-Ingalls crest on snow. They get hardly any attention on the snomo Forums. How nice that they get attention on a skier website...

Here is a letter below on this topic from USFS. Notice, the "Ratpics" thread has no legal significance. It is more likely theater to convince someone (?) to allow the current snowmobile free-for-all to continue. Also, it hints at how difficult it is to cite anyone for snowmobile Wilderness trespass. In personal conversations with LEOs including Mr. Moelder and with USFS Wilderness managers, I know that they would like to control and eliminate the snowmobile Wilderness trespass. The only effective measure that I am aware is to move the boundary to the NF Teanaway Road so that USFS personnel may closely monitor the Boundary by riding snowmobiles on the Road. Otherwise, USFS is unable to make any presence for enforcement of the Wilderness Boundary on the Teanaway-Ingalls crest.

cc

File Code: 1500
Date: June 29, 2011
Dawn Serra
Communications and Outreach Coordinator
Wilderness Watch
P.O. Box 9175
Missoula, MT 59807

Dear Dawn Serra,
Thank you for the June 3, 2011, e-mail regarding an online forum posting about snowmobile trespass into the Alpine Lakes Wilderness Area ( www.backcountryrebels.com/showthread.php?t=15270$page=7 )
The e-mail stated a Wilderness Watch member found a list of names, license plate numbers and photographs of vehicles at the above website that the member believed implicated people involved in snowmobile trespass in the Alpine Lakes Wilderness Area. The original posting occurred on April 27, 2011.

I have spoken to North Central Washington Zone Patrol Captain Robert Moelder on a number of occasions about snowmobile trespass into Okanogan-Wenatchee N.F. wilderness areas. He administers law enforcement patrols for the Okanogan-Wenatchee and Colville National Forests.
Moelder said there is nothing in these website photographs that confirms illegal activity has occurred and the third party report is essentially hearsay unless a signed, written statement is given by someone who saw snowmobiles being ridden into a wilderness area.

This information has been given to Forest Service law enforcement officers who conduct patrols near Ingalls Lake, Headlight Basin and Stuart Pass. These officers also regularly monitor motorized recreation websites.

Please encourage Wilderness Watch members to make timely reports of any illegal activity on national forests. We look forward to continued conversations on wilderness issues such as these.

Okanogan-Wenatchee N.F. managers regard snowmobile trespass into wilderness areas as serious offenses. They rely heavily on volunteers and national forest visitors to augment monitoring and reporting of snowmobile trespass into wilderness areas. In fact, reports this spring of snowmobile trespass into the Alpine Lakes Wilderness Area often came from snowmobilers who chastised violators on a snowmobile blog and open forum.

Again, we welcome these reports from national forest visitors, particularly when accompanied by statements signed by individuals who witnessed alleged offenses occurring.

Sincerely,


/s/REBECCA LOCKETT HEATH
Forest Supervisor

cc:  Mary E Bean, Brenda M Yankoviak, Jeff Rivera, Judy Hallisey, Robert Moelder   
end cc


The article linked below was published one year after the photo posted with the article. Yet we know from BCR postings "The Rat Pics" and many TAY mentions going back many years that snowmobiles have and continue to be ridden in the Alpine Lakes Wilderness from the Teanaway. And there remains the situation of little or no chance of enforcement because of the difficulty and the skill of the riders, based on conversations with two of the OWNF LEOs and observations.

wildernesswatch.org/newsroom/guardian/Al...atch+Guardiancontent

I would caution the snomo-admirers here that the written principles of WSSA and SAWS state that they will not compromise, they will yield no land for any other use, and are against Wilderness in general. These are the folks being admired here on TAY, an alleged website for skitouring enthusiasts.

We ask that winter non-motorized Forest users describe how and where they recreate, and also share their thoughts about this issue and this need with the Forest Supervisor and the Forest Plan Revision Team. Contact Forest Supervisor Rebecca Heath and the Forest Plan Revision Team: Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest Headquarters, 215 Melody Lane, Wenatchee, WA 98801  r6_ewzplanrevision@fs.fed.us 

Following this thread now and I'm beginning to understand. This is like a shiite/sunni, Dem/GOP, Yankee fan/Red Sox fan kinda thing. The most sensitive of one side will not be happy until the most extreme of the other is eradicated. Hope both factions can find a way to communicate with each other so that the majority can find a common ground. The polar nut jobs (tried to think of another descriptive but drew a blank. If some can help I'll edit. )

Sooner or later the right buyer will find my house on 5 acres with adjoining XC and hiking trails now listed for $190k and we'll head to the PNW. When you see me, say HI!

Wooley

Wooley,

While you try for entertainment, I question the relevance above.

Not at all.

Non-motorized Forest users have been shut out from their practical use of the winter Forest by hugely-expanded offroad snowmobile riding.

WMC and a growing lobby including many real Organizations are asking for USFS management to balance the use.

Our point is management that is inclusive of all legitimate uses, managed appropriately in some balance according to Law, Regulation, and Policy.

I would caution the snomo-admirers here that the written principles of WSSA and SAWS state that they will not compromise, they will yield no land for any other use, and are against Wilderness in general.

We ask that winter non-motorized Forest users describe how and where they recreate, and also share their thoughts about this issue and this need with the Forest Supervisor and the Forest Plan Revision Team. Contact Forest Supervisor Rebecca Heath and the Forest Plan Revision Team: Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest Headquarters, 215 Melody Lane, Wenatchee, WA 98801 r6_ewzplanrevision@fs.fed.us