Snowmobilers and wilderness

Non-motorized Forest users have been shut out from their practical use of the winter Forest by hugely-expanded offroad snowmobile riding.

Generally that would imply a need for expanding the areas for offroad snowmobile riding, not limiting them even further.

Following this thread now and I'm beginning to understand. This is like a shiite/sunni, Dem/GOP, Yankee fan/Red Sox fan kinda thing. The most sensitive of one side will not be happy until the most extreme of the other is eradicated. Hope both factions can find a way to communicate with each other so that the majority can find a common ground.

I think the conflicts shown on websites is much worse then real life. You are right though, we are all just lovers of the back country, aren't we?

Non-motorized Forest users have been shut out from their practical use of the winter Forest by hugely-expanded offroad snowmobile riding.

Seems to be more of just whining about who gets first tracks more then anything else. Snowmobiles don't restrict the access to anyone on foot as the snow is still there, but tracked. The only restrictions that I know of anywhere in WA forest is to motorized access, not foot use (be it ski/snowshoe/or hike).

WMC and a growing lobby including many real Organizations are asking for USFS management to balance the use.

WMC is a group of 2, maybe 3 guys. I do like the comment "including many "REAL" Organizations"....kinda tells a little about WMC.

Our point is management that is inclusive of all legitimate uses, managed appropriately in some balance according to Law, Regulation, and Policy.

Your goal is obvious, to reduce/eliminate snowmobile access to the state forest. There is already a balance tipping to the non-motorized folks and it really doesn't matter how much expansion of non-motorized forest use is given, folks like yourself will never be satisfied until snowmobiles are regulated out. I don't ride sleds but I do a lot of dual sport riding in the forest and I get enough bad looks from those hiking up logging roads and wishing I were not there but I'm legal and riding where permitted. I stand up for the snowmobiler because the trickle down can effect my recreation.

If you want to complain, do it with the USFS for not enforcing existing laws. I had to deal a lot with this in the past behind Hyak with snowmobile poachers and I was able to resolve most of it through photo's and emails, but it took a couple years. I did not claim to be an organization or coalition of folks, but represented all issues as myself and those who supported me locally here also represented themselves as them self.

This topic constantly being raised here is annoying IMO and I'm surprised the mediators don't put an end to it as all it does is cause negative attitudes. The threads go nowhere and don't change anyone's point of view so what's the point?

The threads go nowhere and don't change anyone's point of view so what's the point?

This time around, these threads were started by a snowmobiler who's trying to understand the broader (than WMC) backcountry community's feelings about snowmobile impact. ruffryder's threads could be a new beginning of online collaboration between TAYers and Snowest-ers.

Combined advocacy for expanded (and actually plowed-all-season) sno-park access to the central Washington Cascades would appear to provide benefit to all....

This time around, these threads were started by a snowmobiler who's trying to understand the broader (than WMC) backcountry community's feelings about snowmobile impact. ruffryder's threads could be a new beginning of online collaboration between TAYers and Snowest-ers.

Combined advocacy for expanded (and actually plowed-all-season) sno-park access to the central Washington Cascades would appear to provide benefit to all....

We all know what a BC skier wants....no tracks, no sound, no smell and especially in the off-limits wilderness. Of course I agree with keeping sleds out of non-motorized areas but enforcement is lacking so many of the younger kids venture in. Last night I was out and was talking with a 26 yr old who has 3 sleds and rides mostly the Wenatchee area. I asked him about the wilderness and he said he and his buddies go into it to hit the steep slopes (I forget what peaks he mentioned). I asked him if he was worried about being caught and he said, yea, it is a pretty steep fine but we never see anyone around to bust us.
As stated numerous times, w/o enforcement the problems will continue. Increasing the size of wilderness will not remove the problem, just piss off those who obey the rules and those that don't will continue to go into the forbidden zone. As I stated numerous times, Mr WMC needs to address the enforcement end, not hammer the folks who play by the rules.

I asked him about the wilderness and he said he and his buddies go into it to hit the steep slopes (I forget what peaks he mentioned).  I asked him if he was worried about being caught and he said, yea, it is a pretty steep fine but we never see anyone around to bust us. 

I sure hope you mentioned to the rider the negative impact that he is having on the sledding community.

We all know what a BC skier wants....no tracks, no sound, no smell and especially in the off-limits wilderness.  Of course I agree with keeping sleds out of non-motorized areas but enforcement is lacking so many of the younger kids venture in.  Last night I was out and was talking with a 26 yr old who has 3 sleds and rides mostly the Wenatchee area.  I asked him about the wilderness and he said he and his buddies go into it to hit the steep slopes (I forget what peaks he mentioned).  I asked him if he was worried about being caught and he said, yea, it is a pretty steep fine but we never see anyone around to bust us. 
As stated numerous times, w/o enforcement the problems will continue.  Increasing the size of wilderness will not remove the problem, just piss off those who obey the rules and those that don't will continue to go into the forbidden zone.  As I stated numerous times, Mr WMC needs to address the enforcement end, not hammer the folks who play by the rules.

thanks , for the report . pm sent

thanks for getting back to me i hope :