Snowmobilers and wilderness

they can make an effort within their own community to educate the few bad examples that ruin it for their own community. that might be a long shot though, but I know if a backcountry skier violated some ski ethic they would get a lashing

That effort is already underway.  I believe the FS has noticed a decrease in wilderness trespass from the effort.

They get more then a lashing.. they get their pictures and names posted on the web for all to see.

doing circles around my tent a couple winters ago left me with a bad taste...

maybe they were trying to help build a wind wall? or maybe a mote to keep trespassers away? just joking, and yah, that is pretty lame and would tick me off as well.

The fact that the snowmobile community has a faction that loudly despises wilderness leads me to believe (subjectively) that they may mistreat other public lands as well.

can you expand on this a bunch more please? Like what faction, why do you think they don't like wilderness, and how they would mistreat public lands. Just got confused is all.

can you expand on this a bunch more please?

Yes I can, but will have to do it after work.

if they can't be heard, can't be smelled, and they spooned / farmed their trenches instead of the crisscrossing plate of spaghetti they always leave, then I wouldn't care wherever they played.  Oh, and slow down a bit as we pass each other..

Anybody working on an electric version?  Fuel cell?

yeah, this is the sled/wilderness thread, but recall that drift is allowed after the 4th post..   

...could you quantify or describe the change in viewpoint?

In order to quantify a "change in viewpoint", a measurement would be needed in order to establish benchmark metrics. One way to accomplish this is to distribute a survey throughout the snow recreational community.

For example...one set of questions would address frequency, age, income levels, level of awareness, level of expertise, etc...enough to gain an understanding of the demographics of the responders.

Q: To what extent do you utilize winter recreation opportunities in the WA Cascades each year?
a) never
b) once every 10 years
c) once every year
d) 2-10 every year
e) > 10 times

Q: Select your principal type of snow use
a) shoe
b) resort ski/board
c) touring
d) mountaineering
e) snow machine
f) other (give type)

etc etc....standard market analysis...

The next series of questions will begin to address ruffryder's question:

Please indicate your viewpoint to the following questions:
very dissatisfied / dissatisfied / neutral / satisfied / very satisfied

How satisfied are you in how a snow machine is engineered?
How satisfied are you in how a snow machine is maintained?
...transported?
...licensed?
...permitted for winter use in WA state?
...permitted for winter use in WA state parks?
...national forests?
...national parks?
...national wilderness?
...etc...

I suspect that TAY could easily generate additional  survey questions...it might even be fun!! But the rub will be in who will distribute and pay...and, most important, who will be retained with the appropriate credentials in statistically sound market analysis to generate the report out?

I believe the FS has noticed a decrease in wilderness trespass from the effort.

I would be concerned about the validity of this statement, i.e. by what method did the FS "notice a decrease" in response to an apparent increase in law enforcement?  So add more questions in your survey:

How satisfied would you be in changing your viewpoint on snow machine use in the WA Cascades if snow machine use were restricted in region X?
...region Y?
...region Z?

...if enforcement was increased?
...if enforcement was increased to the extent that additional rangers patrolled the snoparks?
...if trailers supporting illegal snow machine use were "booted", thus preventing transport of snow machine on roads until the fine was paid?
...if enforcement was increased so a criminal complaint was filed in court?
...if enforcement was increased beyond a wall of shame on an internet web site...
...if - heck - you could even go over the top with this line of inquiry...
etc..etc...

There is no easy way to accomplish what ruffryder asks -- but it is doable. I recommend that TAY consider the metric-based approach as long as the stakeholders come to the table and the research study be properly designed, executed and analyzed.

"If snowmobilers eliminated all wilderness trespass, no tracks seen, no sleds heard, no nothing, would it have a any impact on your viewpoint about snowmobilers and there activity?"  If so, could you quantify or describe the change in viewpoint?

Rather than describing how my viewpoint might change if there was no snowmobile trespass, I can describe how snowmobile trespass affects my viewpoint today.

Seeing snowmobiles enter wilderness and seeing the tracks they've left behind makes me realize that some riders don't respect the laws governing public lands. I wonder if these riders have contempt for people like me who think the laws are important. This makes me a uncomfortable around snowmobile riders, because there's no way to know which ones feel this way. If there was no snowmobile trespass, this problem would be much reduced.

I'm sure snowmobile riders could describe a similar dynamic related to skiers. There's no way for them to know which skiers are really militant and are cursing at them under their breath. It's not a healthy relationship in either direction...