Snomo in couloir

WMC attempts to follow this and we appreciate that the discussion is required to be about the topic and is not permitted to be directed at the individual.

I thought WMC was a group? lol

The NW hikers link is interesting. It looks like the poster has some ambiguity as to where the actual wilderness boundry is. That sure is interesting as the poster makes a point in pointing out the wilderness incursions when it seems it is possible they weren't in the wilderness at all.

Lowell states it well, copied in post #74. The NW Hikers thread also describes the interaction of winter non-motorized recreation with snowmobiles.

There is no ambiguity that some snowmobile enthusiasts with unclear interest in winter non-motorized recreation post here with words that seem to want to influence, or intimidate, or disrupt decent conversation.

WMC is well defined here, is a small group however is involved in these issues in discussion with give or take 50 persons at times, and interacts with Organizations which total millions of members. The point is that the requirement here is to debate the issue and not the person making the post.

Wenatchee Mountains Coalition encourages skiers to step up and speak up to USFS about their use and to ask for areas on the Forest to be designated for winter non-motorized use.

WMC,

So are you agreeing that the OP of the NW hikers thread that you linked might not have been correct in stating that the snowmobilers at Park Butte were out of bounds?  Your response wasn't very clear.

Still interested...

Skied Baker last Sunday from the Squak Glacier. Noted lots of snomo tracks INSIDE Sherman Crater. It is not even beyond question that there is rampant poaching on Baker. To quibble about this incident and that is not diverting from the ample evidence that the snomobile community and the forest service needs to do a better job of educating riders where the boundaries are.

Skied Baker last Sunday from the Squak Glacier.  Noted lots of snomo tracks INSIDE Sherman Crater.  It is not even beyond question that there is rampant poaching on Baker.  To quibble about this incident and that is not diverting from the ample evidence that the snomobile community and the forest service needs to do a better job of educating riders where the boundaries are. 

Thank you Gregg_C,

Agreed but also there is clearly a lot of intentional snowmobile Wilderness trespass. Again, I own and ride snowmobiles for decades, and I agree that snowmobile riders are good normal folks in the majority. The problems arise from a lack by USFS of planning, designation (especially on the Wenatchee Mountains), and virtually no significant enforcement. And the problems are quite significant. Thus WMC was started to ask and bring skier comments to pressure USFS to reasonably manage the Forest in winter for other uses aside from snowmobile riding on the non-Wilderness Forest. And also, to create opportunity for reasonable enforcement of snowmobile Wilderness trespass. If there are statistically insignificant incidences of actually being caught when riding illegally, there is simply lawlessness. Such is demonstrated regularly and repeatedly.

In some discussions skiers/ non-motorized folks often express concern that the the other users, specifically snowmobile riders, have a reasonable opportunity on the Forest. And this occurs even though one use, snowmobile riding, seriously interferes the other, quiet winter non-motorized snow recreation. However, skiers have little to no effect on the activity of snowmobile riding. In spite of this, when skiers/ non-motorized individuals ask for consideration by the opposition of their use they have sometimes been screamed down, demeaned, threatened, or here countered with endless bad-faith arguments designed only to disrupt or stop the conversation.

Thank you very much to those who will speak up to ask USFS to reasonably manage (and enforce) snowmobile riding on the Forest.