WMC Update 2012

WMC will ask please for decent and civil discussion here. WMC recognizes that others have opposition to some concepts, that is their right. In response to those in opposition, WMC will strongly state its case and disagree, argue, but will endeavor to not characterize or name-call any individual taking a different or opposition viewpoint. We ask for proper language, civil behavior, and good faith discussion and debate. Thank you.

I find this segment of the conversation riddled with hypocrisy.  "we seek a fair share of the Forest"?  What does this mean?  Non-motorized users have use of 100% of the forest, but what you really desire is the exclusion of other groups of folks so you can have more segments of the forest to yourself. 

And where does it stop?

A response to WMC's posting over at NWhikers 4m...


"The post, and this particular statement, are general and assumptive. Snowmobilers like any other user group have a widely varied user base seeking their own experience. Some prefer just riding the roads. Some prefer sitting in a bowl and highmarking all day. Others, myself included, are willing to do the work and take the risk and will push thru more difficult terrain and trees to seek out unridden areas within the National Forest. If we are willing to do that work to get to some back bowl that nobody else rides- why cant a skiier? Why the special treatment?

The desired terrain/areas that most snowmobilers often seek out are clear-cuts. With the advent of the Northwest Forest Plan and others- logging in the National Forests has declined. My example being the Gold Creek/Mt Margaret/Lake Kachess area. In the late 90s riding was fantastic up there due to the recent logging activity. Now some 10-15 years later- the trees are growing the wide open hills arent so much anymore. Give it another 10 years and its a whole new game. Snowmobilers will have to seek out other areas to ride. How does Forest Service begin to administer that relative to my earlier statement about people seeking out their own user experience.

Snowmobiling has changed without a doubt as the machinery has gotten better- however not just in the past 10 years, 20 years- but over the past 30 years. However generally as a snowmobile rider, I havent ridden in any area that I havent ridden in the past 10-12 years. Could you provide specific examples of where snowmobiles are now going that they haven't already in the 10-20 year time frame?

Ive seen more and more people toting skiis and boards up the hill on snowmobiles these days. I've seen where they get to a bowl and set-up and start making turns on a hill and the snowmobilers leave them alone. Its kind of like at the beach. You show up early in the morning on a nice summer weekend- you probably get the pick of your spot. You show up at 2pm- you get the sucky spot. Why not do the work and get there early to have that hill to yourself. If as a rider I want to make first tracks on an epic powder day- I leave early....To me is just seems you want special status granted for your user experience because you dont want to do the work- either to get away from the masses or leave early to stake your claim."

A response to WMC's posting over at NWhikers 4m...


"Others, myself included, are willing to do the work and take the risk and will push thru more difficult terrain and trees to seek out unridden areas within the National Forest.  If we are willing to do that work to get to some back bowl that nobody else rides- why cant a skiier?  Why the special treatment?

You show up early in the morning on a nice summer weekend- you probably get the pick of your spot.  You show up at 2pm- you get the sucky spot.  Why not do the work and get there early to have that hill to yourself.  If as a rider I want to make first tracks on an epic powder day- I leave early....To me is just seems you want special status granted for your user experience because you dont want to do the work- either to get away from the masses or leave early to stake your claim."

The areas that the poster are referencing as unridden have most likely been skied for decades.

If I show up at 0400 to ski and you show up 0700 to sled you will always beat me to the remote location and track out the terrain. You're reply would most likely be "I was here first", but were you really?

WMC would encourage the 151,000 non-motorized Forest users and the 35,0000 owners of Registered snowmobiles in this state to discuss, give input, and comment to the appropriate Officials. (Figures were posted here and justified by other posters).

WMC, you figures are incorrect for the amount of snowmobilers. The number is 98k for snowmobilers, as per the Washington SCORP estimates, which are utilized in the WWA pdf that was used in YOUR posts as having important numbers. Please stop using incorrect data in this discussion.

A response to WMC's posting over at NWhikers 4m...

"Others, myself included, are willing to do the work and take the risk and will push thru more difficult terrain and trees to seek out unridden areas within the National Forest.  If we are willing to do that work to get to some back bowl that nobody else rides- why cant a skiier?  quote]

too funny. Now I see what we're up against.