New Bullion Basin lift, upgrade to High Campbell..

I'll go back to my parent's cabin on a FS lease.  They plow the road in the winter, but they cannot restrict who uses that road.

I can't be sure, but I really, really doubt that the road to Crustal would be plowed if it weren't for the paying lift riders.

To that extent, bc skiers are freeloaders. But as I said, we all freeload on one another so forget the Fox spin on the term "freeloaders". We need each other.

I can't be sure, but I really, really doubt that the road to Crustal would be plowed if it weren't for the paying lift riders.

To that extent, bc skiers are freeloaders. But as I said, we all freeload on one another so forget the Fox spin on the term "freeloaders". We need each other.

Oh, I am nearly positive the road would not be plowed without CM, but as Randy stated earlier, that is part of the price of doing business on FS land - providing some free services to the public.

I'll go back to my parent's cabin on a FS lease.  They plow the road in the winter, but they cannot restrict who uses that road.

I'm pretty sure that plowing is done by the private (pool) funds provided by the lease holders.

I'm pretty sure that plowing is done by the private (pool) funds provided by the lease holders.

That is exactly my point - My parents plow the road to their cabin, yet they cannot determine who drives on that road.

So yes, there is some substance to the argument that the BC skiers are freeloading on the paying lift skiers since the road up to 4400 @ Crystal wouldn't exists without the ski area and the dollars the elitist lift skiers spend (or those that have parking passes ).

I'm sure you're just goofing off and trying to push buttons and I shouldn't bother to post in this thread, but it's lunch time and I've had too much coffee.  

I think you're argument that "BC skiers" are freeloaders and never ride lifts or support ski areas with their dollars is pretty silly.  I'm sure that we all hang out with different crowds and sort of self-segregate, but all the "BC skiers" that I know spent many years exclusively riding lifts prior to becoming "BC skiers," most still ride the lifts frequently, and many continue to buy season passes.  You keep saying that we should think together rather than assert our differences, so if you really want that you (as well as Micah, Orion and others who only ski the BC) should recognize that there are a lot of folks out there who like the resorts for what they are (fun!) and like the backcountry for what it is (fun!).  Typically, these people have spent and will continue to spend an awful lot of money on the ski industry through gear purchases and lift tickets.  Sure, some people poach and think that they are entitled because they can, but I and I'm sure many others think that is theft.

I wouldn't be surprised if Crystal management realizes this to some extent, and at least hopes that by maintaining good dialogue and relations with people using their lots (that they are going to plow anyway) to access nearby backcountry is indeed good business.

So the road would be there and plowed and maintained if Crystal Mountain wasn't there? Or George Prices proof is wrong?

Is there anyone out there who can pull off their identity hangups anhd really read and understand?

Would Crystal Mountain ski area be there if the miners weren't there before them???  Who cares.  If CM decides to charge for parking in their lots, then that is there choice (if it is legal for them to do so), but I think that while you may like it, other regulars would not and might instead buy lift tickets at White Pass or Stevens Pass where free parking is offered, resulting in a net decrease in profits.  

Also, comparing population biology and George Price to something as frivolous and pointless as skiing at Crystal Mountain is a red herring and has absolutely nothing to do with lift expansion IMHO, but I haven't read the book.  

Personally, I think that density off of the High Campbell lift is fine as it is and I would like to see that maintained as is.  But, I would also prefer to have a lift that can stay open in reasonable amounts of wind.  I personally think that the terrain and aspect off of the King is much better than that off of East Peak and I'd be happy to see a lift to the top.  The Bullion Basin expansion seems to me to be expansion for the sake of expansion, but what do I know...

Oh, I am nearly positive the road would not be plowed without CM, but as Randy stated earlier, that is part of the price of doing business on FS land - providing some free services to the public.

Free as in freeloader, which again for the umpteenth time is not intended as a jibe.

It's part of who we humans are.

And I'm in support of it, just like I'd be more than happy to have my tax money used to maintain some snopark below Cement basin or Stampede Pass or White River even if I never used it.

Crystal is one of very few places where any lift development is allowed in WA. Lift served acreage is far beyond Comfortable Carrying Capacity (or the Crystal Conservation Coalition) anywhere in the Puget Sound.

Also, comparing population biology and George Price to something as frivolous and pointless as skiing at Crystal Mountain is a red herring and has absolutely nothing to do with lift expansion IMHO, but I haven't read the book.

Nothing like a well informed and considered response.
But I think I'm done. This is a hopeless divisive quibble.