TR Replies
Tronsen was great all day, as long as you knew where to avoid wind crust. Wind was gusting nicely on the ridges as usual. Much improved from yesterday, not that it was bad then either. Saw two other groups, we all took laps on Diamond Head. They continued while I looked elsewhere. Snow sluffed, no signs of propagation like the previous day. Good day with good sun.
After snow all day into the early evening, Tuesday had brilliant sunshine all morning. Clouds started moving in around 3pm. Punched the skin track another 500' up the ridge. Perfect powder in the open but lower tree skiing was "tree bombed" out. Two snow machines had been on the road. The pullouts were plowed. If your in the area you should take advantage of the track before it snows again. Good stability but the sunshine was making some crystals and crust.
when Daniel was lost a bunch of years ago, patrol closed the bc for 2 days, then realized that a thousand nutjobs skiing every nook yelling Danny may not be such a bad idea. pretty much eliminated out to No Fog that he wasn't around in a rescue sense. found him 3 days later near Malakwa environs.
miracle
miracle
author=Good morning link=topic=35132.msg144101#msg144101 date=1450643634]
Are you a pussy or are you an idiot? We usually take a moment to reflect on this question and the present snow conditions before we take any questionable line. Today we didn't think twice. We should have.
Snow was falling hard and swirling about. On the open slopes above source lake it felt stable enough; loose unconsolidated delicious powder on a dense layer that...
author=Roger Strong link=topic=35132.msg144154#msg144154 date=1450710596]
Huge kudos and thanks for sharing this Dave as you and your partner will go through a series of 'would have and should haves' for quite some time. A process I still go through nearly on a daily basis following the avi that swept me and 2 friends out of our group of 5 on April 6th, 2011... for me resulting in life changing injuries...The fact that you had the courage to share t...
Thanks for the report; a worthy destination close to the city.
Did you access the slopes via the summer trail?
Did you access the slopes via the summer trail?
Glad you came out OK. Appreciate you sharing your story, this has served as a wake up call/reminder to me and many others.
Indeed. Thank you! For sharing this in such a raw and honest fashion. It is important for all of us.
Realizing that I myself have made bad decisions I offer a couple of thoughts only in the spirit of being a part of a community that I love.
1. Tree Anchors. I think this is a bit of a myth. Plenty of slides propagate in and through forested areas. As someone else already mentioned, trees can actually be points of weakness in the snow pack. At the same time we think of...
Realizing that I myself have made bad decisions I offer a couple of thoughts only in the spirit of being a part of a community that I love.
1. Tree Anchors. I think this is a bit of a myth. Plenty of slides propagate in and through forested areas. As someone else already mentioned, trees can actually be points of weakness in the snow pack. At the same time we think of...
Hey AvaJane,
Where is King's creek? I can only find one in Pierce county.
tx
Where is King's creek? I can only find one in Pierce county.
tx
author=bc_skier link=topic=35132.msg144214#msg144214 date=1450797537]
Can anyone take the attached photo, or create a new one, and mark the slope that slid. Perhaps someone with PhotoShop.
Big Trees is a specific run.
Thank you for the report. Can anyone take the attached photo, or create a new one, and mark the slope that slid. Perhaps someone with PhotoShop.
There are quite a few slopes that have slid in that area but it might help others that have not been in the Source Lake area.
Thanks
There are quite a few slopes that have slid in that area but it might help others that have not been in the Source Lake area.
Thanks
Here is a link, you can use, tonight it seems a little conservative. maybe not a good day to be in the open or in traps
http://www.nwac.us/avalanche-forecast/current/cascade-west-snoqualmie-pass/
http://www.nwac.us/avalanche-forecast/current/cascade-west-snoqualmie-pass/
Anyone know if they plan to open that area tomorrow to recreational users? And/or how to find more information on the rescue efforts?
Thank you for manning up(or manning down?) and sharing your close call with the rest of us.
Glad you're both alive to tell about it and I hope your partner heals quickly.
Glad you're both alive to tell about it and I hope your partner heals quickly.
We were intercepted by a sheriff walking from the summit west parking lot towards the trailhead. It would have been very helpful if information about the closure had been given to nwac and could have been put in the Avalanche bulletin. That would have allowed my party to come up with an alternate tour plan which might have involved going to a different pass.
My teaching has been that trees are only a safe area if they provide full overhead canopy. Meaning no surface hoar, little wind effect, and the healing properties of getting tree bombed every so often. Anything less is not truly safe. In fact in areas other then the cascades sparse trees on the edge of the slope can actually be a good place to trigger deep failures due to faceting around the tree stump. Often you can test the theory of "does this slope slide" by checking the branches o...
Thanks for sharing your experience, it can happen to anyone. It sounded pretty scary, I'm glad you came out OK.
I don't know if it played into what happened at all (it doesn't seem to have) but the comment about tree anchoring struck me. With recent snowfall I try not to think of trees as anchoring the snow, instead considering them as wind sheltered areas where there is less likely to be slab formation. I don't expect trees to anchor soft snow if a slide is trigge...
I don't know if it played into what happened at all (it doesn't seem to have) but the comment about tree anchoring struck me. With recent snowfall I try not to think of trees as anchoring the snow, instead considering them as wind sheltered areas where there is less likely to be slab formation. I don't expect trees to anchor soft snow if a slide is trigge...
Forgot about the heli-bombing. That day, if I recall correctly, a sheriff stood at the Commonwealth trailhead to warn people not to head toward Snoqualmie, while another sheriff restricted road access north of I-90.
author=kamtron link=topic=35155.msg144190#msg144190 date=1450738753]
Has this ever happened before?
Yes, it has.
Several times in the past they have closed Alpental Valley when either conducting SAR or a few times when the enough snow and danger was present to need to helibomb surrounding slopes.
I am hoping against hope that the missing skier is found safe, but with 24-30" since Saturday now the odds...
How are they enforcing this or disseminating information? Haven't seen this mentioned anywhere else. Is Alpental road closed?
Not to my knowledge, but it's been done at Paradise in recent years.
Their best bet is probably a beacon search, and failing that, tracks, neither of which are compatible with outside users. On the tracks front, new snow becomes a minor advantage.
This weekend has convinced me we're going to have to figure out how to manage searches in the presence of heavy recreational usage in the future. Accidents happen on storm days, and on storm days, skiers are most concent...
Their best bet is probably a beacon search, and failing that, tracks, neither of which are compatible with outside users. On the tracks front, new snow becomes a minor advantage.
This weekend has convinced me we're going to have to figure out how to manage searches in the presence of heavy recreational usage in the future. Accidents happen on storm days, and on storm days, skiers are most concent...
Thanks much for the report. I've been in that area before and fooled myself that it was safe because of tree anchoring. Now I know better, and I hope I'll remember the lesson.
Has this ever happened before?
Was up there on Saturday. Was a little disappointed at the number of dogs just running around, even some leaving some stinky surprises on the skin track and elsewhere. I usually don't mind dogs while out, but it was a bit much this time.
Yes, we do live and learn. And there is no shame in playing the pussy card. Tonight is winter Solstice. For over 20 years we have skied in to Source Lake for a party to celebrate the longest night and the coming of winter. Tonight we again made the call to hold the party close in. This decision isn't based on my freak out in the aftermath of Thursday, though I've been pretty entertained (and not always in a good way) by the range of emotions following such an accident. It's...
We all learn a bit when someone writes a good trip report like this, thanks Dave.
We found yesterday's storm snow to be quite touchy. Numerous evidence of soft slab naturals on steep slopes above the middle lake, all in the new snow that fell Saturday night/Sunday morning. However, the powder below that seems solidly bonded.
Good to see you guys out there, and nice skiing.
Hyak was crowded but definitely fun this weekend.
On Saturday a friend followed the upper crossover trail from Silver Fir to Hyak. He encountered a lone snowshoer on his way to Hyak Lake who was trapped in a tree well under the powerlines. The snowshoer was unable to get out on his own. He was lucky my friend crossed paths with him.
On Saturday a friend followed the upper crossover trail from Silver Fir to Hyak. He encountered a lone snowshoer on his way to Hyak Lake who was trapped in a tree well under the powerlines. The snowshoer was unable to get out on his own. He was lucky my friend crossed paths with him.
Dave - that is an awesome read. Thanks for sharing your story and the wisdom gained.
In the late 90's we lost a lot of very talented people in paddling. Prior to that, when scouting a rapid, if you decided to walk the response was, "Are you a pussy?" Now the response is universally, "Good call" - except maybe for paddlers who are in year five and haven't been trounced yet.
Maybe skiing isn't at that place yet. We need to be all need to be...
In the late 90's we lost a lot of very talented people in paddling. Prior to that, when scouting a rapid, if you decided to walk the response was, "Are you a pussy?" Now the response is universally, "Good call" - except maybe for paddlers who are in year five and haven't been trounced yet.
Maybe skiing isn't at that place yet. We need to be all need to be...
author=unclepen link=topic=35132.msg144146#msg144146 date=1450674337]I have a feeling that may have been facetious.
Glad no one was seriously injured.
"even if NWAC only says "CONSIDERABLE"
From the North American Public Avalanche Danger Scale:
Considerable
Likelyhood of avalanches: Natural avalanches possible, human triggered avalanches likely
Thanks for the post, I imagine there are all kind of emotions swirling around, glad you are still around to tell the story, and really glad you told it here, thanks again.
Huge kudos and thanks for sharing this Dave as you and your partner will go through a series of 'would have and should haves' for quite some time. A process I still go through nearly on a daily basis following the avi that swept me and 2 friends out of our group of 5 on April 6th, 2011... for me resulting in life changing injuries...The fact that you had the courage to share this is a great sign that you'll add this experience to your thought process when assessing terrain, condi...
Glad no one was seriously injured.
"even if NWAC only says "CONSIDERABLE"
From the North American Public Avalanche Danger Scale:
Considerable
Likelyhood of avalanches: Natural avalanches possible, human triggered avalanches likely
"even if NWAC only says "CONSIDERABLE"
From the North American Public Avalanche Danger Scale:
Considerable
Likelyhood of avalanches: Natural avalanches possible, human triggered avalanches likely
Thanks Charlie, it was great to be out with you and Susan!
Our route back was a mess (Chris calls it "brutal") so I wouldn't recommend it.
author=radka link=topic=35141.msg144139#msg144139 date=1450670817]We did see your snowshoe track, but it seemed to be following the PCT and we chose a different strategery (staying at valley bottom initially, following the creek) so we didn't follow it.
Ah, yes, I climbed up first to 4500ft and then took the shortcut to the PCT. Before I realized what a mess the snow was, I was thinking about taking your route back. I'm glad your group m...
Hello, mbravenboer! Actually, it was your trip report on NWHikers that inspired us to post ours here. We did see your snowshoe track, but it seemed to be following the PCT and we chose a different strategery (staying at valley bottom initially, following the creek) so we didn't follow it. Chris did inspect it, though. We just posted a response on NwHikers.
Wonderful photos, particularly at the summit!
It looks like you missed the track I worked on so hard on Saturday! (or you don't care about snowshoe tracks to the extent that you didn't even mention it ;) ). I posted a report on nwhikers for that attempt, which failed.
It looks like you missed the track I worked on so hard on Saturday! (or you don't care about snowshoe tracks to the extent that you didn't even mention it ;) ). I posted a report on nwhikers for that attempt, which failed.
The 8 track was by David, I'd have skied in an open ;) He may have felt that line was the safest in that bowl. It was a little gentler and a slight rib.
It is David's van, I was just a passenger ;D
It is David's van, I was just a passenger ;D
Did a couple laps 12/20. The runs were pretty well tracked by the time I showed up (what can I say I slept in and watched the early football games). The new snow formed a nice cohesive slab in some places, which made me thankful for such awesome relatively low angled terrain. And thanks for everyone that didn't slack this morning for kicking in such a nice uphill trail for me:)
We saw the same conditions from the other side of the valley below Kendall Lakes - NW aspect at 4100 ft. Almost 50 inches of unconsolidated storm snow. Much more than the telemetry suggests.
Thanks for the post. Good for the rest of us to keep this in mind when we make our own decisions whether to be pussy, idiot, aggressive, bold or what have you.
Thank you for sharing your experience. Very glad to hear you both walked away from it.
Hit the nordic trail system 12/19 and then a couple lift runs on Silver Fir in the fading afternoon light. The nordic groomers have not yet linked up through Hidden Valley or Rockdale canyon so things were a little limited. Lot of hikers and dogs at Hyak; tracks up Mt. Catherine. Unfortunately Medic One was at the Silver Fir base area with some people talking about an in-bounds snow immersion accident.
I'll stick this here since there's several Hyak threads already:
12/20 (Sunday) morning was good! There were several inches additional new snowfall and it snowed moderately hard the whole morning, but it is definitely getting denser with the warming trend.
We did one lap on the backside and one on Hyak Face. The lower mountain is groomed for a fantastic uptrack. It was my first time skiing here and I'll definitely be back regularly.
12/20 (Sunday) morning was good! There were several inches additional new snowfall and it snowed moderately hard the whole morning, but it is definitely getting denser with the warming trend.
We did one lap on the backside and one on Hyak Face. The lower mountain is groomed for a fantastic uptrack. It was my first time skiing here and I'll definitely be back regularly.
Thanks for sharing your experience. These kinds of posts, humbling as they may be, serve a very real and valuable purpose in sharpening our collective wisdom and restraint. Glad you both got out okay, under your own power, no less.
author=jakedouglas link=topic=35134.msg144105#msg144105 date=1450646429]
Snow: nasty in some places in the trees where tree bombs have fallen and refrozen. Previous storm snow has a substantial crust in some open areas, guessing from sun breaks yesterday? 3-6" of new overnight snow cracked and slid readily on top of the old. Sketchy!
Thanks for the conditions report.
author=Dave_R link=topic=35051.msg143857#msg143857 date=1450114836]
...though I am having a tough time making him out in the pictures. Perhaps if he wore some bright clothing? ;)
A few years ago a photographer friend told me he wouldn't take my picture anymore if I didn't ditch my dark blue parka.