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Updates??- 2 climbers, 2 campers overdue...Rainier

  • Andrew Carey
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14 years 3 weeks ago #203718 by Andrew Carey
I would be interested in hearing Amar's standard as well. I have been caught in blizzards above Paradise and it can be scary. I have also climbed above Panorama Point on my hands and knees because i (and the two with me) couldn't stand up with the skis on our packs. So, for me, it is an interaction between precipitation (snow) and wind. If there is snow forecast with winds gusting above 30 mph, I stay home (after a very unnerving experience trying to climb out of the back bowl with snow being deposited so fast that I had to keep shifting my ascent and by the time I got to the top I thought I better dig a snow cave--the winds weren't that great, but given the powder [ground blizzard] the situation was tenuous; eventually, i recognized some landmarks and made my way back to Paradise to find a parking lot empty of all cars but my pickup and Ranger Karen waiting hopefully at Cougar Rock--she had left me a note on my windshield, but I almost couldn't get my doors open for the plastered snow). If there is no precip and the snow is settled, 30 mph is easily handled. 50 mph is difficult to handle under many conditions. And higher ... the woman of the pair that survived two nights recounted that the strong winds blew snow into the vents of her goggles making them useless from plastering inside and out. Of course, i'm an old codger, and I can go skiing any day; but above treeline--I am conservative.

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  • shaman
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14 years 3 weeks ago #203719 by shaman
Mt. Rainier can be such a vicious beast.

I remember in January a few years ago starting from Paradise in sunshine and nothing more than a base layer.  Halfway up the snowfield the clouds began to roll in.  The winds picked up and the temperature must have dropped 20 degrees in a matter of seconds.  My fingers were numb before I could get my gloves on.  We made the decision to high-tail it off of the mountain before conditions worsened.

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  • Charlie Hagedorn
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14 years 3 weeks ago #203720 by Charlie Hagedorn
Replied by Charlie Hagedorn on topic Re: Updates??- 2 climbers, 2 campers overdue...Rainier

In high wind and blowing snow without goggles, you're screwed.


Just wanted to highlight this point. Glacier glasses with side shields don't cut it for me on trips where harsh winter weather is possible. Travelling into the wind in riming conditions without goggles can be painful and blinding.

Skin wax has a similar home in my pack.

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  • Dr. Telemark
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14 years 3 weeks ago #203726 by Dr. Telemark

Well, that's the dilemma, isn't it: if you hold back on any analysis or criticism of an incident out of respect for family and friends, then you may lose the chance to publicize important lessons which could be learned from the incident. If you wait until after a lengthy grieving period has passed (months, a year?) then the incident has faded from public view, and the important lessons will not be widely heard even if presented then. For the first time in my life, I dealt with the death of two close friends in the mountains within the past year, so I'm certainly much more sensitive to the issues regarding grief of family and friends than I was before. But even more so after those two fatal accidents last year, I don't think that family and friends should be shielded from the truth, or that public discussion of an incident should be avoided.


I fully agree with Amar and as I read the posts above I wasn't seeing harsh criticism but some analysis of what many would feel was a lack of foresight, caution and situational awareness. Though this forum is public, it isn't like we are printing our comment in the Seattle Times but sharing our insight to a group of backcountry skiers/boarders to clarify decision points that may have saved the lives of those lost.

We do this kind of analysis in medicine all of the time - it's called morbidity and mortality report. In a confidential meeting (to allow for open discussion), we break down the events that led to a bad outcome (or sometimes an expected death - not necessarily avoidable). This is done to teach ourselves everything possible to avoid pitfalls or mistakes that could have occurred. Brokering a respectful, honest discussion is an art, but it also must be honest and not duck the key questions or acceptance of failure. In the process, we hope to have some humility too, since we all realize that anyone of us could make the same mistake.

Yes, a totally random event could take someone out at no fault of their own and that does happen, but more often then not, it is human error that leads to someone's death in most of these stories. We must learn from our own mistakes and those of others and carry that humility into the mountains.

Dr. Telemark

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  • Amar Andalkar
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14 years 2 weeks ago #203735 by Amar Andalkar
Replied by Amar Andalkar on topic Re: Updates??- 2 climbers, 2 campers overdue...Rainier

I'm wondering at what speed winds would you consider aborting a trip, also considering the predicted values are averages?


I started thinking about this and writing, and it just grew too long (and too specifically about me) to post in this thread. So it seems best to start a separate thread:

High winds on Mt Rainier: thoughts and experiences

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  • Kneel Turner
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14 years 2 weeks ago #203740 by Kneel Turner
Ryan (or anyone) do you mind sharing where they were last seen heading up towards Camp Muir?

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