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Updates??- 2 climbers, 2 campers overdue...Rainier
- Andrew Carey
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- shaman
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I remember in January a few years ago starting from Paradise in sunshine and nothing more than a base layer. Halfway up the snowfield the clouds began to roll in. The winds picked up and the temperature must have dropped 20 degrees in a matter of seconds. My fingers were numb before I could get my gloves on. We made the decision to high-tail it off of the mountain before conditions worsened.
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- Charlie Hagedorn
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In high wind and blowing snow without goggles, you're screwed.
Just wanted to highlight this point. Glacier glasses with side shields don't cut it for me on trips where harsh winter weather is possible. Travelling into the wind in riming conditions without goggles can be painful and blinding.
Skin wax has a similar home in my pack.
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- Dr. Telemark
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Well, that's the dilemma, isn't it: if you hold back on any analysis or criticism of an incident out of respect for family and friends, then you may lose the chance to publicize important lessons which could be learned from the incident. If you wait until after a lengthy grieving period has passed (months, a year?) then the incident has faded from public view, and the important lessons will not be widely heard even if presented then. For the first time in my life, I dealt with the death of two close friends in the mountains within the past year, so I'm certainly much more sensitive to the issues regarding grief of family and friends than I was before. But even more so after those two fatal accidents last year, I don't think that family and friends should be shielded from the truth, or that public discussion of an incident should be avoided.
I fully agree with Amar and as I read the posts above I wasn't seeing harsh criticism but some analysis of what many would feel was a lack of foresight, caution and situational awareness. Though this forum is public, it isn't like we are printing our comment in the Seattle Times but sharing our insight to a group of backcountry skiers/boarders to clarify decision points that may have saved the lives of those lost.
We do this kind of analysis in medicine all of the time - it's called morbidity and mortality report. In a confidential meeting (to allow for open discussion), we break down the events that led to a bad outcome (or sometimes an expected death - not necessarily avoidable). This is done to teach ourselves everything possible to avoid pitfalls or mistakes that could have occurred. Brokering a respectful, honest discussion is an art, but it also must be honest and not duck the key questions or acceptance of failure. In the process, we hope to have some humility too, since we all realize that anyone of us could make the same mistake.
Yes, a totally random event could take someone out at no fault of their own and that does happen, but more often then not, it is human error that leads to someone's death in most of these stories. We must learn from our own mistakes and those of others and carry that humility into the mountains.
Dr. Telemark
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- Amar Andalkar
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I'm wondering at what speed winds would you consider aborting a trip, also considering the predicted values are averages?
I started thinking about this and writing, and it just grew too long (and too specifically about me) to post in this thread. So it seems best to start a separate thread:
High winds on Mt Rainier: thoughts and experiences
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- Kneel Turner
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