Updates??- 2 climbers, 2 campers overdue...Rainier

If you've never browsed Accidents in North American Mountaineering, the annual compilation by the American Alpine Club and the Alpine Club of Canada, it's worth a look. There's much to be learned in it, and the reports are written in a dispassionate and analytical style that focuses on the causes, but generally doesn't pass judgment on the victims. It's useful for aspiring and experienced mountaineers and respectful of the victims and their survivors.

Perhaps there are lessons in there for TAY as well.

My condolences with the families and friends of the presumably lost but I'm with Amar here.  As a survivor of a fatal avalanche and a witness to the peculiar burping sound an avalanche victim makes while CPR is being performed, everything should be on the table.  I'm hoping no one else has to go there for whatever reason.

Having taken part in the search on the 23rd, I will add that the only thing we are capable of critiquing are the circumstances surrounding their decision to leave the parking lot. Unlike CSI, SAR operations do not attempt to impose judgement on the actions of the lost to avoid closing the searchers to all possibilities of where & how they went.

Live victims of accidents can recount their decision making which builds a foundation for others to study and use to improve their decision making. Hindsight does not improve one's ability to error correct in the field. Checklists and constant communication about changes in conditions(people & weather) help people make better decisions. Most decisions that end poorly often fail to accurately assess the consequences of the risk taken. The more we educate ourselves to do this well, the better our outcomes will be.

As I flip through old copies of Accidents in North American Mountaineering I think the lesson it teaches is to focus on preparation, skills, and decisions but to avoid speculating about the victims' intelligence or character.

Its always easier to get something constructive out of an accident like this after a little time has passed. That runs against human nature of course. But early reports are always lacking in facts and clouded by strong feelings.

What's worse, the news media makes a living capitalizing on our gut response to things like this, not on getting the facts right. They sell ad impressions, not good information, so you have to look elsewhere for anything really constructive. As a society we really don't make a habit of having thoughtful discussions around topics like this. The discussion here is definitely an improvement and I'm grateful for it.

Personally, I'm thinking about a friend who was lucky to make it back from a winter ascent or Rainier, minus a couple body parts (hardly seems to bother him now...). The best thing about that whole experience was that he got to tell other folks like me what his mistakes were, AND what he did during the accident that may have helped. Mattski is right. That was a few years ago, but the story is still paying dividends.

I am really pleased to see the common sense of many of the skiers here on TAY.... After reading phrases like "armchair quarterback" here quite often, I thought most of the skiers here were too politically correct to see that discussing the facts of these tragedys, while sometimes painful, can help other people avoid mistakes of their own and practice safer alpine decision making....

I know I have learned to pay closer attention to telemetry from one highly discussed incident last year.... Thankfully, I have someone I trust to discuss the seasonal snowpack with as it developes and compile an evolving acessment that keeps changing and being re-evaluated.

I had written a very long post on this subject yesterday,.... but it's been covered by other people here posting their own thoughts.

The only other thing I want to say is.... If I die in the backcountry or have some incident occur to me relating to my decision making, snowpack evaluation, or route choice... I would like my mistakes discussed freely here or anywhere that it may help someone else avoid making the same mistakes I made....