wsdot snoqualmie rant

I forget who brought up the NY state highway department earlier in this thread, but I always think about them when I'm driving over the passes. They have 100's of miles of multi lane highway to keep clear of snow and seem to do a better job of it than WSDOT does between north bend and ellensburg. When snow was in the forecast, they'd be out pre sanding and salting to prevent the snow from sticking well. Once it was dumping, they'd roll down the highway 3 trucks across with massive outriggers deployed, plowing shoulder to shoulder and everything in between. The passes get far more snow, but there is far less highway. It's difficult to imagine that they can't keep the roads cleaner.

That was me. To travel 50 miles on the NYS Thruway cost about $5. Assuming 10k cars/trucks per day X $5 X 365 days that generates $182 million. Deduct 25% for graft and ineptitude that would garner 136 mil. That would certainly pay for some snow plows, sand, road maintenance and toll collectors. The Ferry's aren't a free ride. It would be a user fee, that seems popular here in WA, not a toll or tax.

We don't need no stinkin tolls. NY can keep that to themselves.

Slightly off topic, but as a Mainer, we never needed chains.

As others have implied, if you have good tires on that AWD you should be OK on the main roads, though if you read that law verbiage you'll see that you do need a set of chains that fit the vehicle for one pair of tires in your car to head over our passes in wintertime. You may find challenges in side roads and parking lots that haven't been plowed for a while depending on the ground clearance on that Audi, and depending on how heavy the snow is.

FWIW, I grew up in MA and spent a lot of time in winter up in Maine around Bryant Pond/Bethel, as well as in NH, and of course we also got a lot of snow in MA, and we never had nor needed chains even with just front wheel drive (and even rear wheel drive though that could get more interesting). I recall one trip to Sunday River during a storm that had dumped a foot overnight where on the final climb to the ski area the person ahead of us slowed way down and we had to reverse down the hill and take another run at it and a night driving home from a friend's house in northern MA where we had maybe 2" over ice happening and it was pretty dodgy, but generally, with some snow driving skills, it was not that hard to drive as long as the roads were somewhat plowed (blizzard of 78 style and all bets were off and chains weren't going to help!!). We learned quickly after moving here that we really did need to use chains sometimes with FWD, even with good siped snow tires on the vehicle. I think it's because we get so many more snow events at or slightly above freezing than we tended to get back east. I miss the hypnotic effect of the dry light snow braiding behind the car ahead of me on the roadway as we headed up to ME on a Friday night (and that "must...keep...focus...on...DRIVING!" feeling) - here that image is replaced with things like the image of a snowmobile trailer that is plowing a boat-like wake of slush onto my windshield.

We don't need no stinkin tolls.  NY can keep that to themselves.

Then you are happy with the current life threatening situation?  If that's how you feel then that's how you feel and I'll respect that. Let me repeat. You are satisfied with the current situation. Reading through the replies here it seems that the issue is a stretch of road that is unique in climate and traffic volume. I'll admit to having a brain that was taxed into some sort of numbness.  $5 would have you safely in the powder. Educating the public on how to drive in snow seems an untenable goal. Even back east in a whole different climate and snow, the first snow fall has everyone relearning speed and stopping distances. A toll seems equitable to me but I'm not happy with the situation. A toll is not a tax IMO, it's a user fee. Or are all of my different wilderness parking passes not user fees but taxes?

...
(WAC 204-24-050)
"Use of tire chains or other traction devices.
(...
(a) Exception for all wheel drive vehicles. When "chains required" signs are posted, all-wheel drive vehicles will be exempt from the chain requirement when all wheels are in gear and are equipped with approved traction devices as specified in WAC 204-24-040 provided that tire chains for at least one set of drive tires are carried in the vehicle.


(WAC 204-24-040)
Traction devices.
The following equipment items are approved by the state patrol for use as traction devices wherever traction devices are required by the department of transportation:
(1) Tire chains meeting the standards in WAC 204-24-020.
(2) Studded tires meeting the standards in WAC 204-24-030.
(3) Approved traction tires. An approved traction tire must have the following tread characteristics:
(a) A minimum of 4/32 inch tread, measured in the center portion of the tire at three locations equally spaced around the circumference of the tire.
(b) A relatively aggressive tread pattern designed primarily to provide additional starting, stopping, and driving traction on snow or ice. The tread must have ribs, lugs, blocks or buttons the edges of which are at an angle greater than thirty degrees to the tire circumferential centerline.
(c) On at least one side of the tread design, the shoulder lugs protrude at least 1/2-inch in a direction generally perpendicular to the direction of travel.
(d) Tires manufactured to meet these specifications must:
(i) Be permanently labeled on at least one sidewall with the words "mud and snow" or any contraction using the letters "M" and "S" (e.g. MS, M/S, M-S, M & S, etc.); or
(ii) Be permanently labeled on at least one side wall with the mountain/snowflake symbol.
(4) Alternative traction devices. Any alternative traction device approved under this chapter must be used in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations concerning proper use of the product. The list of approved devices will be maintained on the patrol's web site. Upon suspension or revocation of an approval for an alternative traction device, the device will be removed from the list of approved devices on the patrol's web site.
...

Thanks! I've never seen the definition of "approved traction tires" before; didn't know it was so specific. I've always had high-end winter tires and wondered what "approved" meant.