Comment on Airbags in the PNW

It sounds like we are of the same mindset, still I don't think anyone should count on skiing out of a slide.

I agree. We're coming from a similar position. I'm saying you can't count on any of your tools (mental, physical or technical) to be perfectly reliable. It's the full set that makes a well balanced bc tourer. I seldom hear anyone emphasize the importance of descending ability as a component of avy safety, so I raised it. I think air bags will eventually be more valuable of a technical tool than beacons. They won't replace beacons and will never be as important as a well trained, disciplined mind or an able body.

I wonder if this guy would say about the skills needed to ski out of an avalanche...

We do know. He said he was lucky and that riding with a beacon, shovel and air bag seems to be the minimum. Friends to dig you out ... intelligence ... luck ...

To any experienced eye that slope was clearly wind loaded and the consequences nasty. I hope that I would have never been there or backed off. A belayed ski cut would have been an effective start. Who knows if a cut would have released the lower slabs that eventually caught him. Probably yes but no guarantees.

You might notice his response was to straight line out of the initial slab, descending hundreds of vertical feet upright and enabling him to avoid being raked over several sets of rock bands and cliffs. Avoiding a ride over rocks and cliffs was as responsible for his survival as his air bag or luck.

Better yet, he should have never been there. That he was you can probably chalk up to his need to get footage for his sponsors and perhaps his trust in his equipment and team. Once he committed to the line his ability to initially escape saved him some very serious abuse.

First, my disclaimer:  I'm the local Tech Rep for Backcountry Access and K2 Backside, so I definitely have a bias in this.  I'm also a local guide and avalanche educator.  So just keep that in mind.

Airbag packs have been out for over 20 years - the first ABS packs were sold in Europe in the late 1980's.  So we actually do have quite a lot of statistics, both from live deployments and from tests.  This is not some experimental technology.  It doesn't need to "mature".  The only changes that are coming down the pipeline are refinements that continue to reduce the weight and reduce the cost, and some new approaches from Black Diamond and Arcteryx using ducted fans instead of compressed gasses.

An airbag pack IS NOT GOING TO REDUCE YOUR ODDS OF TRAUMA.  If you are skiing in trauma-inducing terrain, you're just as likely to get traumatized while using an airbag pack as you are without.  And anytime you hit an object while traveling over 20mph, you're likely to break something.  My personal opinion is that I'd rather be broken and on the surface than broken, buried, and waiting to be dug out.

So far, there hasn't been any statistical evidence shown that the ABS double-airbag or the Mammut RAS horse-shoe collar increases skier survivability, or reduces the likelihood of trauma.  Believe me, if that was the case either company would be rightfully trumpeting that from the roof tops.

Finally - it has been demonstrated, time and time again, that ANY safety device effects people's perception of risk and their decisions to accept risk.  It can't be helped.  People drive faster because of seat belts, take more chances because of helmets, and are more likely to ski in the backcountry with a shovel, probe and beacon.  Its a recognized heuristic. 

Bruce Tremper at the Utah Avalanche Center investigated ABS's marketing claim last year that airbag packs gave the users a 97% survivability.  Here's his conclusion (bold sentence by me):
"Bottom Line:
"Ignore the 97% number and the 3% number.  My best guess is that avalanche airbag packs will probably save a little more than half of those who would have otherwise have died in an avalanche.  They will never save all of them because 1 out of 4 will likely die from trauma of hitting trees and rocks on the way down and an additional 1 out of 4 will probably end up in a terrain trap (deep burial), buried by a secondary avalanche or caught in an avalanche that does not travel far enough for the inverse segregation process to work (larger objects rise to the surface).

"In addition, people will increase their exposure to risk because of the perception of increased safety, which will cancel out some, but not all, of the effectiveness of avalanche airbags. 

"As usual, our choice of terrain is far more important than rescue gear.  Un-survivable terrain will always be un-survivable.  In terrain with few obstacles, terrain traps, sharp transitions and smaller paths, avalanche airbags have the potential to save significantly more than half of those who would have otherwise died.  And that sounds pretty good to me."

The full text is here: utahavalanchecenter.org/blog-avalanche-a...mething-closer-truth

I'll be following this thread if you'd like to ask me any questions.  There is also a ton of independent information on Lou Dawson's website wildsnow.com.

Here's some evidence. Wearing an air bag, among other contributors like familiarity and stoke, adding energy to the human element:

Accident: Grizzly Gulch, Utah 12/9/13

- "It was decided that the victim would go first since she was carrying all of her normal avalanche gear.  Once she was on the slope and realized she had triggered the avalanche, she immediately deployed her avalanche airbag and started the ride downhill."

Cause I like to beat dead horses, you can also see in the video that with more momentum she should have been able to ride out of that. Her second turn was almost a stop. If she was carrying more speed she would have been long gone before that first slab started to move. With a lighter touch it might not have broken at all.

More important than anything else was the evidence of an earlier slide, 100 yards down the same pitch.

Lesson: observe, make good decisions then ski fast

Gosh if I was to ski such an obvious terrain trap, I would hope that I would a least ski cut it!!! That is a tough way to find out that slope would slide...even if you have all the "safety" crap on on your back.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seems like there was a fatality last year at Telluride or Crested Butte where the air bag was torn to shreds from the slide action. Don't think the person got drug into trees...could be wrong.

Excellent post Chris S. If you have a bias it would appear to be for factual data-driven analysis. Commendable. The linked Avi report is stunning. Airbags but no beacon/shovel/probe. Scary and presumably an all to common approach to avi safety these days.