Comment on Airbags in the PNW

^ Yes, of course, Randy - I agree 100%

My comment was to aaron_wright's post earlier

^ Yes, of course, Randy - I agree 100%

My comment was to aaron_wright's post earlier 

I never said it was a certainty either. That said, a lot of people tend to just tick off the boxes and assume everything will turn out fine," avy course, beacon, shovel and probe, air bag. I'm good to go".

Interesting discussion.
Consider this:
At the trailhead beacon check, you discover your partner doesn't have a beacon, and never intended to bring one. He says he thinks they just encourage people to take more risk.
Would you simply acknowledge, and continue your day as planned, without modifying any of your choices or actions, or would you be more conservative? Or would you simply not tour with a beaconless partner?
I think I would tour w this person, and be more conservative. I don't see it as taking more risk based on equipment. I see it as risk/benefit consideration, and risk management.
The goal for me is to find the sweet spot of risk/benefit between staying in bed and suffering undesirable consequences. Ideally this matches well with my partners, but I don't expect it to.

Just ski right out of the slide with your skillz, or if that fails deploy your airbag...

Mock me all you want but I stand by my assertion that descending skills are a crucial component of mountain safety. I choose lines below my ability in the bc to lower my risk. I challenge myself inbounds. I'm not a yahoo who got an air bag for christmas last year. My first beacon was blue and came with an ear plug.

My emphasis on descending skill doesn't mean I don't start with conservative decision making. I  back off frequently and can make a fun day of lapping mellow pitches. I just think it is incomplete to believe that you can 100% avoid risk with planning (short of staying home). We avoid most risk with the tool between your ears but isn't it worth spending some time and effort (and maybe $$$) on how you maximize your chance of survival once you've dropped in on a line?

It amazes me to see so many backcountry skiers & boarders hacking their way down (& up) 35+degree slopes, skiing above their abilities and placing huge pressure on the pack with no chance of being anywhere but entrained if the slope breaks. Often this hacking occurs after digging a pit on a 15 degree pitch. Often this hacking is an attribute of skiers that never ride lifts.

My crew doesn't use air bags because the tech isn't mature and we are concerned with how they will influence decision making. My guess is that air bags will initially increase the human element as a contributor to avy accidents. In 5 years they will be as common as beacons.

Mock me all you want but I stand by my assertion that descending skills are a crucial component of mountain safety.
...

I wonder if this guy would say about the skills needed to ski out of an avalanche...

Mock me all you want but I stand by my assertion that descending skills are a crucial component of mountain safety. I choose lines below my ability in the bc to lower my risk. I challenge myself inbounds. I'm not a yahoo who got an air bag for christmas last year. My first beacon was blue and came with an ear plug.

My emphasis on descending skill doesn't mean I don't start with conservative decision making. I  back off frequently and can make a fun day of lapping mellow pitches. I just think it is incomplete to believe that you can 100% avoid risk with planning (short of staying home). We avoid most risk with the tool between your ears but isn't it worth spending some time and effort (and maybe $$$) on how you maximize your chance of survival once you've dropped in on a line?

It amazes me to see so many backcountry skiers & boarders hacking their way down (& up) 35+degree slopes, skiing above their abilities and placing huge pressure on the pack with no chance of being anywhere but entrained if the slope breaks. Often this hacking occurs after digging a pit on a 15 degree pitch. Often this hacking is an attribute of skiers that never ride lifts.

My crew doesn't use air bags because the tech isn't mature and we are concerned with how they will influence decision making. My guess is that air bags will initially increase the human element as a contributor to avy accidents. In 5 years they will be as common as beacons.

It sounds like we are of the same mindset, still I don't think anyone should count on skiing out of a slide. As far as hacking our way down slopes, I think we've all been there.

I do think you can reduce your risk of getting caught in a slide by choosing your day, terrain and snow conditions to almost 0. I think a lot of the tech available allows people to venture out in marginal conditions and inappropriate terrain and justify that decision.