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From NWAC - This is worth noting
- RonL
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14 years 10 months ago #198550
by RonL
Replied by RonL on topic Re: From NWAC - This is worth noting
Hmm, that is a good way look at it too. Thanks again for letting me drag some more info out of you guys.
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- Jake the Brit
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14 years 10 months ago #199202
by Jake the Brit
Replied by Jake the Brit on topic Re: From NWAC - This is worth noting
Here's the report on the March 5th fatality on the West slopes of Cashmere.
Further to the FOAC Cannon report, this seems relevant to Gary Brill's warning about persistent weak layers on the east side.
"Snowpack Summary:
The avalanche triggered by the victim released on an old facet/crust layer. The slab was approximately 85-100 cm deep by 65 meters wide and varied between 4F and 1F in hardness. It released on a 2 cm thick 4F faceted layer (composed of .5mm facets) above a pencil hard melt-freeze crust."
The full report is here:
www.nwac.us/media/uploads/documents/acci...anche%20Accident.pdf
Further to the FOAC Cannon report, this seems relevant to Gary Brill's warning about persistent weak layers on the east side.
"Snowpack Summary:
The avalanche triggered by the victim released on an old facet/crust layer. The slab was approximately 85-100 cm deep by 65 meters wide and varied between 4F and 1F in hardness. It released on a 2 cm thick 4F faceted layer (composed of .5mm facets) above a pencil hard melt-freeze crust."
The full report is here:
www.nwac.us/media/uploads/documents/acci...anche%20Accident.pdf
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- garyabrill
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14 years 10 months ago - 14 years 10 months ago #199205
by garyabrill
Replied by garyabrill on topic Re: From NWAC - This is worth noting
Thanks, Jake. Also note the Blewett Pass avalanche last week, in addition to the Cannon snowpit of 3/17. It isn't clear though that the Mt. Cashmere accident involved the same layer that is still being mentioned in today's avy forecast. But one of the big problems is that east of the crest PWKL (persistent weak layers) still exist and they aren't buried as deeply, meaning they are easier to trigger directly, by stepping down, or with the sudden load of another shallower avalanche, even a good sized wet sluff.
I find it very useful to pay attention to the Canadian Forecasts (avalanche.ca) not only for relevance, but also for the behavior of weaker snowpacks that we don't see very often. Notice the language about cornice failure, avalanches stepping down, wet slide triggering, the significance of convexities in human triggering in this forecast from Banff. I'm not saying the problems are the same, they aren't, but the behavior of facets or hoar above crusts is similar to the behavior of the full-on depth hoar that is the biggest concern near Banff. Notice the relatively shallow snowpack depths that allow for the development and maintenance of depth hoar (very mature facets). Reading these forecasts periodically is very educational.
www.pc.gc.ca/apps/PSB/index_e.asp?oqAVA_park_ID=2
In any case we are likely approaching our first significant warm storm/spring avalanche cycle the end of next week with freezing levels as high as 8-9,000' (depending on the forecasting model) for about 36 hours. If this is indeed a "dirty ridge" it means skies will remain mostly cloudy and a freeze overnight may not happen. Avalanches east of the Cascades down to the old crust/facet layer would seem likely as the weak layer weakens by warming and is challenged by the redistribution of stresses in the stronger, more recent snow layers nearer the surface.
I find it very useful to pay attention to the Canadian Forecasts (avalanche.ca) not only for relevance, but also for the behavior of weaker snowpacks that we don't see very often. Notice the language about cornice failure, avalanches stepping down, wet slide triggering, the significance of convexities in human triggering in this forecast from Banff. I'm not saying the problems are the same, they aren't, but the behavior of facets or hoar above crusts is similar to the behavior of the full-on depth hoar that is the biggest concern near Banff. Notice the relatively shallow snowpack depths that allow for the development and maintenance of depth hoar (very mature facets). Reading these forecasts periodically is very educational.
www.pc.gc.ca/apps/PSB/index_e.asp?oqAVA_park_ID=2
In any case we are likely approaching our first significant warm storm/spring avalanche cycle the end of next week with freezing levels as high as 8-9,000' (depending on the forecasting model) for about 36 hours. If this is indeed a "dirty ridge" it means skies will remain mostly cloudy and a freeze overnight may not happen. Avalanches east of the Cascades down to the old crust/facet layer would seem likely as the weak layer weakens by warming and is challenged by the redistribution of stresses in the stronger, more recent snow layers nearer the surface.
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- garyabrill
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14 years 10 months ago #199208
by garyabrill
Replied by garyabrill on topic Re: From NWAC - This is worth noting
This avalanche accident in Utah that made the news is a good read with photos,etc. Notice the cornice!
utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche_skyline_3262011
utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche_skyline_3262011
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- Gary Vogt
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14 years 10 months ago #199212
by Gary Vogt
Replied by Gary Vogt on topic Re: From NWAC - This is worth noting
FWIW, I witnessed a large, loud avalanche today about 2pm in Mt Rainier NP. It started a bit above 5000' on about a 40 degree slope facing NW below the westernmost summit of Eagle Pk in the Tatoosh and ran over 2000 vf to the Nisqually River just below Cougar Rock CG. Snapped trees in the debris looked up to two feet in diameter. Looked to be pretty wet, with no powder cloud to speak of. Weather had been foggy/cloudy all day, with no real sun.
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- Amar Andalkar
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14 years 10 months ago #199221
by Amar Andalkar
Some photos of the path and debris (unfortunately [size=small]very small[/size] with no larger linked versions) have been posted at the Crystal Ski Patrol Blog:
www.blogcrystal.com/2011/03/articles/ava...rd/big-bertha-slide/
For those unfamiliar with this slide path, it is located just below the Crystal Lake lookout site in Mt Rainier NP.
Topo map: mapper.acme.com/?ll=46.908,-121.525&z=15&t=T
Switch to satellite view to clearly see where the path crosses SR 410 and reaches White River Road, nearly 3000 ft below the top of the path.
Replied by Amar Andalkar on topic Re: From NWAC - This is worth noting
Big Bertha just slid all the way down to 410 ripping out numerous old growth trees along the way.
Rumor has it that it was a 8 foot crown.
Some photos of the path and debris (unfortunately [size=small]very small[/size] with no larger linked versions) have been posted at the Crystal Ski Patrol Blog:
www.blogcrystal.com/2011/03/articles/ava...rd/big-bertha-slide/
For those unfamiliar with this slide path, it is located just below the Crystal Lake lookout site in Mt Rainier NP.
Topo map: mapper.acme.com/?ll=46.908,-121.525&z=15&t=T
Switch to satellite view to clearly see where the path crosses SR 410 and reaches White River Road, nearly 3000 ft below the top of the path.
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