TAY Atmosphere

It’s been a little over a year since I took over the primary administration role for TAY’s forums, and barely two months since I took official ownership of the site. I figured that it was time for a check-in and discussion to see how things were going – it’s been an educational year, to say the least, and probably more of a challenge than I might have guessed.

From the beginning, my approach to moderation on the site has been a bit different. I’d much prefer that folks control their own contributions with an occasional nudge from the moderators, rather than deleting anything that violates the Terms of Use without further comment.

That’s not always easy or effective, so I’ve played around with both approaches over the last 14 months and tried to strike a balance. TAY has always been a place that’s known for its tone and civility (and has been both praised and criticized for it) – finding ways to maintain that (as is my intention) is a constant work in progress.

Over the last year I’ve gotten a lot of feedback, both public and private, about the site and my performance, for lack of a better word. In recent months, much of that feedback has been concern that the site is becoming a harsher, more negative place. After looking through a bunch of “ancient history” (i.e. posts from before Charles handed things over), there’s definitely something to that. I don’t really understand why, though I imagine part of it is because of the “nudge vs. delete” moderation.

Beyond that, when a community like this (and there’s no doubt in my mind that this is an amazing community) starts to grow, the members themselves begin to get more control over the direction things go. Having spent a year watching it from the admin side, it’s fascinating and a lot more complex than I expected. Like trying to steer a tanker with a canoe paddle.

So, checking in. I know there’s a broad spectrum of opinions on this and I thought we’d have a discussion about it, if folks are interested. TAY, at the end of the day, is one website on a big internet, so it will certainly never meet everyone’s needs for all things, but I figured it was worth talking about. I guess I'm looking for the pulse of the community and what folks value most when they come here.

I fully support the "keep it positive" policy. I seek out the TAY vibe almost every day (except when I'm on a trip) for the information, inspiration and community.
I have met some excellent people through this website. They have committed to big tours with people they met through this site, told me their goals and weaknesses, shared trailbreaking, and linked turns in all conditions. They critique the ideas and not the person, and they don't cuss electronically at strangers.

You may be a tough skier, smart and superior,
But our pro bono posters do not want a hassle.
When you get decent people to feeling inferior
You’ll get kicked off the site if you post like an assle.

I really appreciate the civil atmosphere of TAY. BC activities are partly so special because they carry us above all the of negativity. I have seen how skiing brings together people with a wide variety of backgrounds and the differences don't seem important anymore. The task of bringing the calm of the mountains to the internet is understandably difficult. Thank you Marcus, Ron, and all who have participated.

It is so easy to turn into a jerk when you are isolated from the consequences, behind the wheel, behind the keyboard, it is obvious that I am right and they are wrong. Anyone else want to raise a hand as guilty with me? A gentle nudge is always preferable. Ideally that would be enough and we would regret putting a moderator to the trouble. If not, I think the cleaver is appropriate.

A lot of us entered this activity when there wasn't much feedback available. The trial and error approach sure makes for good memories but a little guidance for newcomers can be very important given the hazards. This site brings a lot of pleasure to me personally but more significantly, it has the potential to save lives or prevent injury through shared knowledge. To accomplish this the inviting atmosphere must be preserved. I also have a four year old who I hope will share the joy of BC as she grows. Please keep it family friendly.


Thanks again to everyone who works to keep this going.

I too agree with civility, information, inspirational photos, etc. and prefer to see posts related to those items.

Marcus, I would guess the increase in negativity you have seen overtime is not only a pathology that comes from other sites but also comes because negativity brings forth more negativity (people get irritated or provoked--often the purpose of the original negativity). Nudging somebody to tone it down can cause (naturally, rightfully) shame in the less mature who then (wrongfully) become defensive, angry, and act out with more negativity.

Please keep up the good work!

I mostly lurk here. The local information about avy conditions, weather, and potential routes to tour is priceless. The stoke from trip reports is awesome and inspiring to me as well. I have admiration for many people here who I have never met, (yet) who share their stoke and information. Thank you All!

The pissing contest mentality that pervades other skiing sites doesn't appeal to me. Lately, I post less on those sites regardless of the worthwhile content that they also contain if I look for it.

I don't hesitate to disagree with anyone factually on any subject, but I do hesitate making any disagreements into a pissing contest. I post on another site, that the ratio of factual posts to blather has risen significantly of late.  Questioning a forum members facts in a post leads less and less to an explanation of that person's opinion, and more to accusatory person attacks.

I have heard directly from one site owner that he thought his forum was "self correcting". That may be true from an information point of view, but allowing the tone of the site to be set by a few rude prolific posters is like wrestling with a pig. Although he gets more site hits with an increase in blather-posting, the quality of the information is diluted, and the tone of his site is set by a few pigs with endless amounts of time on their hands to blather on continuously.

Some people enjoy online banter for whatever their reason. I enjoy some of the funnier postings myself, so long as they aren't meant to be strictly an attack on someone. Factual dissagreements are not attacks.

I thought the "smuggest sport" posting of scottsman's was funny and participated in it, mostly making fun of my own collection of arc teryx gear. I didn't think that topic was crossing the line, maybe other's thought is was blather. There is a line that has to be drawn for appropriate content in order to set the website's tone. You are doing a good job, Marcus. I may not always agree with you, but it's in your hands. I would rather you delete or lock a questionable topic than let the tone of this site be diminished by endless blather.

I have a rule I try to follow myself. "I never post anything online that I wouldn't say to someone's face." 

I have no complaints Marcus. Keep up the good work.

Thank you all for the good trip reports, info, and stoke!

I think, given the assured anonymity nature of forums, TAY is faring much better than many other forums. I too appreciate the relative civility and I think you are doing a great job.

It is sometimes hard to distinguish between sharing information and seeking attention and it is often a very fine line between the two. In fact some may misread a post written to share info as a "look at me" promo piece (and vice versa). Misreading posts seems to be a problem for many forums, people are in hurry, always pressed for time and for some expressing their view is more important than listening to others. In short human nature exhibiting itself. Not much an admin can do.

I have been on the internet since 1992 and over the years one thing that I have noticed quite a bit is that forums that promote "senority" based on number of posts (i.e 100 posts or less = newbie, 500+ post = you can create your own custom icon, etc.) can disintegrate quite fast as new members are racing up to catch with the "older" members. I do not think this is a problem here but something to keep an eye on.

Anyway, you are doing great. Thanks for all your hard work. I appreciate it.