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NTN in backcountry
- telemack
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14 years 10 months ago - 14 years 10 months ago #199502
by telemack
Replied by telemack on topic Re: NTN in backcountry
The blue foam has made a big improvement in preventing snow build-up. the last time I toured with them there was buildup behind the ball of the footback to the heepiece as md2020 reported, but not too rapid.
I upgraded to blue springs about 2 weeks ago.
When I toured with Kneel and Eric 11 days ago I had damage to the silver-grey piece that slides forward and back under the orange tour pivot lever. I don't know what you call this part but it's the the third from the left in the top row of Kenji's photo from 2/23. The little wing features seemed to be bent outwards, or the flat part was bent in a way that made the wings stick out and jam, preventing the piece from sliding and jamming the tour lever so it did not lock into turn mode. There was some snow accumulating under the tour lever, which may have stressed the silver-grey piece. I had increasing trouble getting the turn lever to lock into place through the day; could barely get the boot out of the binding back at the car.
Sorry I don't have the right name and description for the damaged part; I brought the bindings back to Marmot, and they have sent them back to Garmont/Rottefella. I have not heard yet if they will replace (maybe from Marmot stock, which will be quicker) or repair. I'm very pleased with the NTN's performance, but these mechanical issues are vexing.
2 related items from this thread:
While at Marmot we experimented with different crampon toe bails, and the Grivel "crampo-matic" bail fit my Camp XLTs and have been ordered. I'll report when I get them.
I got the $100 rebate from Rottefella in about 5 weeks. Thanks to Joedabaker and anyone else who may have nagged them into processing the rebate quickly. I got a cashier's check, not a gift card.
I upgraded to blue springs about 2 weeks ago.
When I toured with Kneel and Eric 11 days ago I had damage to the silver-grey piece that slides forward and back under the orange tour pivot lever. I don't know what you call this part but it's the the third from the left in the top row of Kenji's photo from 2/23. The little wing features seemed to be bent outwards, or the flat part was bent in a way that made the wings stick out and jam, preventing the piece from sliding and jamming the tour lever so it did not lock into turn mode. There was some snow accumulating under the tour lever, which may have stressed the silver-grey piece. I had increasing trouble getting the turn lever to lock into place through the day; could barely get the boot out of the binding back at the car.
Sorry I don't have the right name and description for the damaged part; I brought the bindings back to Marmot, and they have sent them back to Garmont/Rottefella. I have not heard yet if they will replace (maybe from Marmot stock, which will be quicker) or repair. I'm very pleased with the NTN's performance, but these mechanical issues are vexing.
2 related items from this thread:
While at Marmot we experimented with different crampon toe bails, and the Grivel "crampo-matic" bail fit my Camp XLTs and have been ordered. I'll report when I get them.
I got the $100 rebate from Rottefella in about 5 weeks. Thanks to Joedabaker and anyone else who may have nagged them into processing the rebate quickly. I got a cashier's check, not a gift card.
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- Kenji
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14 years 10 months ago - 14 years 10 months ago #199812
by Kenji
Glad NTN helped you to avoid potential injury, good to know they work as designed.
After having done more vertical in recent months, the excess weight seems to bother me more. As far as the snow buildup issue goes, I did chop the bottom frames, also trimmed the lifter wings and moved them further back. The extra spacing seems to help some, but the conditions hasn't been as bad lately to really test my modification.
In addition, this should pretty much eliminate the frame breakage potential since there is no longer enough leverage.
Replied by Kenji on topic Re: NTN in backcountry
...They came off my feet BEAUTIFULLY in the slide, leaving me without a hint of knee pain, let alone serious injury...
Glad NTN helped you to avoid potential injury, good to know they work as designed.
After having done more vertical in recent months, the excess weight seems to bother me more. As far as the snow buildup issue goes, I did chop the bottom frames, also trimmed the lifter wings and moved them further back. The extra spacing seems to help some, but the conditions hasn't been as bad lately to really test my modification.
In addition, this should pretty much eliminate the frame breakage potential since there is no longer enough leverage.
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- Marcus
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14 years 9 months ago #199883
by Marcus
Replied by Marcus on topic Re: NTN in backcountry
I figured tele.skier would post his mod over here at some point, but I'm bored and found it pretty cool, so I'm a-linking to it here so y'all can see:
www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=76425
New rivet to replace the stripped set-screw threads and a fascinating use of a master-link to join the two halves of the frame together and give it more flex.
www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=76425
New rivet to replace the stripped set-screw threads and a fascinating use of a master-link to join the two halves of the frame together and give it more flex.
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- tele.skier
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14 years 9 months ago - 14 years 9 months ago #199887
by tele.skier
Replied by tele.skier on topic Re: NTN in backcountry
Not a problem to post, or link to that info Marcus. I didn't throw it up on TAY's board because I think everyone here who skis NTN is also probably over on ttips occasionally too. I threw it on ttips figuring their content has a wider lattitude than TAY's.
as an update,....I did ski those bindings three days in a row last week. I really pounded them on saturday, skiing the emerging corny bumps at alpental with no problems whatsoever with the modified binding. I noticed the unmodified binding's front set screw losened up on sunday. I wasn't surprised since you don't tighten the screws much on the version 1 NTN's or the threads strip.
The modified binding's set screw inserts are steel threads and the set screws are 'goosed' tight. The modified binding is rock solid, even though it's cut in 2 pieces because I can put more torque the set screws to get better friction between the binding and base plate. Add the chain links and it's all going to break before anything moves.
I had no more of the 1/16th copper washers used to mount the threaded rivet inserts and ordered more of them friday. When they get here, I am going to cut the other binding of the pair in half, chain link them, and put steel threaded inserts in that binding too.
The 2 piece frames hinge so they don't break, and the set screws ride on steel threads so they don't strip. I have installed low profile allen heads screws instead of the stock phillips head ones. The two piece binding slides on and off easier, and has stronger detent pressure so it doesn't losen up.
as an update,....I did ski those bindings three days in a row last week. I really pounded them on saturday, skiing the emerging corny bumps at alpental with no problems whatsoever with the modified binding. I noticed the unmodified binding's front set screw losened up on sunday. I wasn't surprised since you don't tighten the screws much on the version 1 NTN's or the threads strip.
The modified binding's set screw inserts are steel threads and the set screws are 'goosed' tight. The modified binding is rock solid, even though it's cut in 2 pieces because I can put more torque the set screws to get better friction between the binding and base plate. Add the chain links and it's all going to break before anything moves.
I had no more of the 1/16th copper washers used to mount the threaded rivet inserts and ordered more of them friday. When they get here, I am going to cut the other binding of the pair in half, chain link them, and put steel threaded inserts in that binding too.
The 2 piece frames hinge so they don't break, and the set screws ride on steel threads so they don't strip. I have installed low profile allen heads screws instead of the stock phillips head ones. The two piece binding slides on and off easier, and has stronger detent pressure so it doesn't losen up.
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- Joedabaker
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14 years 9 months ago - 14 years 9 months ago #199934
by Joedabaker
Replied by Joedabaker on topic Re: NTN in backcountry
That is a rather creative solution to the Problem Tele.skier. You should call it the Link Turn.
I was wondering, That most the skis must be pretty soft to create that much flex under the foot to stress the binding frame so dramatically (and break). I use the Hardside ski for my NTN and don't see any evidence of cracking..Yet..Knock on wood. I think that it is a stiffer ski and may not get the flex that other boards have to break the cage. I am not a full timers on mine and use them mostly for lift serve, so they take a pretty good pounding, by older guy standards.
But I'm in full agreement that overall the NTN cage needs to be redesigned like your mod or other to compensate for the flex on softer boards.
I was wondering, That most the skis must be pretty soft to create that much flex under the foot to stress the binding frame so dramatically (and break). I use the Hardside ski for my NTN and don't see any evidence of cracking..Yet..Knock on wood. I think that it is a stiffer ski and may not get the flex that other boards have to break the cage. I am not a full timers on mine and use them mostly for lift serve, so they take a pretty good pounding, by older guy standards.
But I'm in full agreement that overall the NTN cage needs to be redesigned like your mod or other to compensate for the flex on softer boards.
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- md2020
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14 years 9 months ago #199937
by md2020
Replied by md2020 on topic Re: NTN in backcountry
I'm still not convinced that the frame under foot is even necessary for anything except supporting the flex plate during step in entry. I may have mentioned this already, but when I broke my NTN at the brake cutout I felt that I could ski it fine. The flex plate alone is plenty for lateral control. Add some kind of plastic rib undernath in place of the open frame.
Kenji, I've been meaning to ask. Does the shorter frame still allow the step in feature, or is the plastic crampon fitting required to prevent the flex plate from falling too far?
Kenji, I've been meaning to ask. Does the shorter frame still allow the step in feature, or is the plastic crampon fitting required to prevent the flex plate from falling too far?
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